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Flash question
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Mar 21, 2023 05:43:30   #
MrPhotog
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
It's a matter of nomenclature, photo slang, and general usage of words vs scientific language.

A general-purpose electronic flash unit or system . . .


These initialisms sometimes throw me, but I think it is HSS (not HHS) for High (shutter) Speed Sync.

The latest ‘flash’ for photographers is a pulse of light from LEDs. This is the common ‘flash’ on a cell phone camera, and often uses the phone’s built in LED flashlight. No high voltage, big capacitors to recharge, or Xenon-filled glass tubes.

Since the light is very brief, and the voltage low, the LED doesn’t get cooked by its own heat, even if it gets a bit more electricity than it is normally rated for, and shines a bit brighter than normal. Some studio lights use a dimmer setting for posing lights, and then create a brighter flash from the LEDs when the shutter opens.

These lights also work well for shooting movies, which can be done with cell phones and many digital cameras.

Also, they can create a true stroboscopic effect since they can turn on and off so quickly.

Reply
Mar 21, 2023 06:49:31   #
jcboy3
 
eagle80 wrote:
Is a strobe flash faster than a regular flash?


In general, the answer is no. A speedlight may be faster than a strobe; it depends on the technology used to control the flash output. It depends upon the technology used to produce the flash (commonly Xenon tube or LED). If the flash uses Xenon tubes (most strobes, speedlights, and camera flashes), then it depends upon the technology used control flash power, which is commonly variable voltage or IGBT (Insulated-gate bipolar transistor).

Most strobes use variable voltage, although some use IGBT. Most cameras and speedlights use IGBT. IGBT flash duration changes significantly with flash power, whereas veriable voltage flash duration has less of a change. To freeze motion, IGBT flashes at low power settings are usually the best selection.

You can get more info from this link:

https://www.paulcbuff.com/Flash-Duration.html

Reply
Mar 21, 2023 06:56:07   #
Craig Meyer Loc: Sparks, NV
 
Jules Karney wrote:
#5 GE flash bulb. Hot when you take it out. Had the flash paired with a Speed Graphic and Roliflex.


Me too!

Reply
 
 
Mar 21, 2023 06:59:03   #
jcboy3
 
MrPhotog wrote:
These initialisms sometimes throw me, but I think it is HSS (not HHS) for High (shutter) Speed Sync.

The latest ‘flash’ for photographers is a pulse of light from LEDs. This is the common ‘flash’ on a cell phone camera, and often uses the phone’s built in LED flashlight. No high voltage, big capacitors to recharge, or Xenon-filled glass tubes.

Since the light is very brief, and the voltage low, the LED doesn’t get cooked by its own heat, even if it gets a bit more electricity than it is normally rated for, and shines a bit brighter than normal. Some studio lights use a dimmer setting for posing lights, and then create a brighter flash from the LEDs when the shutter opens.

These lights also work well for shooting movies, which can be done with cell phones and many digital cameras.

Also, they can create a true stroboscopic effect since they can turn on and off so quickly.
These initialisms sometimes throw me, but I think ... (show quote)


LED flashes are definitely not as fast as Xenon tube flashes, and are not as good at freezing motion. Nor are they as powerful. But they are capable of flashing continuously without concern for overheating or recycling. For example, the Stella Reflex can be fired at 10fps with a flash duration of 1/200sec, while the Stella Reflex S can be fired at 20fps with a flash duration of 1/1000 sec. But these are low powered flashes comparable to a speedlight at 1/32 power.

Reply
Mar 21, 2023 06:59:59   #
Craig Meyer Loc: Sparks, NV
 
The speed difference should not affect the exposure since they're way shorter in duration than the shutter opening. May have sync problems. Be sure you understand what you have, Many folks use the words interchangeably. Another concern when mixing flashes is the separate timing which may introduce a slight gradation at the edges of the shadows.

Reply
Mar 21, 2023 07:36:32   #
Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
It's a matter of nomenclature, photo slang, and general usage of words vs scientific language.

A general-purpose electronic flash unit or system is a so-called Speedlights, "strobe", or monolight, powere pack wired to the lamp head system ARE simply ELECTRONIC FLASH, Photographers call these "strobes, studio strobes, etc, because these all operate on similar electronic principles but most general purpose flash gear is no REALLY STROBOSCIPIC light sources. Actual STROBES not only provide flashes of light of very short duration but are also capable of rapidly repeating bursts that can be adjusted to fire various frequencies. The reuse in musical performances and stage shows for various animated effects is used scientifically to analyze notions, and photographically for special effects. You might see stroboscopic emergency lights atop police cars and other emergency vehicles or used on highway signage to warn of road hazards and dangerous conditions. Photograhers, including myself, still call much of our flash gear "strobes".

The term "speedlight" was once another generic term for electronic flash because of its very short flash duration that could freeze motion whe the fals was the primary light source. Early modes operated on an extremely high voltage and relatively low capacitance due to the use of oil-filled capacitors which stored less energy and discharged faster. Fast durations of 1/100,000sec. or shorter was not uncommon. The advent of more efficient electrolytic capacitors, lower voltages, and high capacitance enabled ample output and longer but still motion-freezing properties. In the early days, the faster shorter flash duration enabled extreme motion capture such as speeding bullets in flight. Some of the high-powered units that consist of power packs and wired lamp heads, in the 2400 watt/second range may have a duration as "slow" as 1/300 sec.

Nowadays, the "SPEEDLIGHT" is usually a smaller flash unit that is mounted on the cameras' "hot shoe". Someof some camer manufacturers have branded some of their flas unit models as "Speedlights" Some Speedlights and similar models will have extremely short flas duration weh set a low powere either manually or through a TTL exposure control system.

Flaslamps or flash bulbs are different species of flash. They are 1-shot disposable lamps that come in differet outputs. There were at one time various modes with longer and shorter flash durations based on the time that it took the zirconium foil or wire and/or gas in the lamp to remain burning. There wew long, short, and medium peak lamps to accompany differet shutter synchronization requirements for more to less ligh output, special delays for focal-plane shutters, and gas-filled models that kind of mimicked electronic flash duration but were also 1-shot disposables. Most of the specialized flash lamps are long out of manufacture and have become a niche market item.

All ofhte above is very basic and in many instances, "old school" theory inthat many of today's flash units and systems have far more sophisticated circuitry and automation. There is HHS that enables synchronization at higher than recommended normal shutter speeds and all kinds of exposure control devices. Nonetheless, at the heart tof every unt is some stepped-up high voltage, stored in capacitors, and discharged in a pulse, into the flas tube on firing. The energy ionizes the xenon gas in the tube thereby causing the flash.


.
It's a matter of nomenclature, photo slang, and ge... (show quote)



Reply
Mar 21, 2023 12:29:37   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
It's a matter of nomenclature, photo slang, and general usage of words vs scientific language.

A general-purpose electronic flash unit or system is a so-called Speedlights, "strobe", or monolight, powere pack wired to the lamp head system ARE simply ELECTRONIC FLASH, Photographers call these "strobes, studio strobes, etc, because these all operate on similar electronic principles but most general purpose flash gear is no REALLY STROBOSCIPIC light sources. Actual STROBES not only provide flashes of light of very short duration but are also capable of rapidly repeating bursts that can be adjusted to fire various frequencies. The reuse in musical performances and stage shows for various animated effects is used scientifically to analyze notions, and photographically for special effects. You might see stroboscopic emergency lights atop police cars and other emergency vehicles or used on highway signage to warn of road hazards and dangerous conditions. Photograhers, including myself, still call much of our flash gear "strobes".

The term "speedlight" was once another generic term for electronic flash because of its very short flash duration that could freeze motion whe the fals was the primary light source. Early modes operated on an extremely high voltage and relatively low capacitance due to the use of oil-filled capacitors which stored less energy and discharged faster. Fast durations of 1/100,000sec. or shorter was not uncommon. The advent of more efficient electrolytic capacitors, lower voltages, and high capacitance enabled ample output and longer but still motion-freezing properties. In the early days, the faster shorter flash duration enabled extreme motion capture such as speeding bullets in flight. Some of the high-powered units that consist of power packs and wired lamp heads, in the 2400 watt/second range may have a duration as "slow" as 1/300 sec.

Nowadays, the "SPEEDLIGHT" is usually a smaller flash unit that is mounted on the cameras' "hot shoe". Someof some camer manufacturers have branded some of their flas unit models as "Speedlights" Some Speedlights and similar models will have extremely short flas duration weh set a low powere either manually or through a TTL exposure control system.

Flaslamps or flash bulbs are different species of flash. They are 1-shot disposable lamps that come in differet outputs. There were at one time various modes with longer and shorter flash durations based on the time that it took the zirconium foil or wire and/or gas in the lamp to remain burning. There wew long, short, and medium peak lamps to accompany differet shutter synchronization requirements for more to less ligh output, special delays for focal-plane shutters, and gas-filled models that kind of mimicked electronic flash duration but were also 1-shot disposables. Most of the specialized flash lamps are long out of manufacture and have become a niche market item.

All ofhte above is very basic and in many instances, "old school" theory inthat many of today's flash units and systems have far more sophisticated circuitry and automation. There is HHS that enables synchronization at higher than recommended normal shutter speeds and all kinds of exposure control devices. Nonetheless, at the heart tof every unt is some stepped-up high voltage, stored in capacitors, and discharged in a pulse, into the flas tube on firing. The energy ionizes the xenon gas in the tube thereby causing the flash.


.
It's a matter of nomenclature, photo slang, and ge... (show quote)


The hot shoe EL-1 speedlight has a possible duration of 1/107,800 sec.

Reply
 
 
Mar 21, 2023 12:50:01   #
Bigmike1 Loc: I am from Gaffney, S.C. but live in Utah.
 
The flash on a strobe light is about a thousandth of a second in duration. That is what they mean by it being faster. I bought a strobe when I got my first good 35mm camera while in the army. It had a 240 volt battery pack that hung over my shoulder. That was 1960 and I was at Fort Bragg.

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Mar 21, 2023 13:23:52   #
jcboy3
 
Bigmike1 wrote:
The flash on a strobe light is about a thousandth of a second in duration. That is what they mean by it being faster. I bought a strobe when I got my first good 35mm camera while in the army. It had a 240 volt battery pack that hung over my shoulder. That was 1960 and I was at Fort Bragg.


That is actually slow. Fast would be more like 1/10,000 or 1/20,000 sec, which is more likely a low power duration of a speedlight.

Reply
Mar 21, 2023 13:42:03   #
Timmers Loc: San Antonio Texas.
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
It's a matter of nomenclature, photo slang, and general usage of words vs scientific language.

A general-purpose electronic flash unit or system is a so-called Speedlights, "strobe", or monolight, powere pack wired to the lamp head system ARE simply ELECTRONIC FLASH, Photographers call these "strobes, studio strobes, etc, because these all operate on similar electronic principles but most general purpose flash gear is no REALLY STROBOSCIPIC light sources. Actual STROBES not only provide flashes of light of very short duration but are also capable of rapidly repeating bursts that can be adjusted to fire various frequencies. The reuse in musical performances and stage shows for various animated effects is used scientifically to analyze notions, and photographically for special effects. You might see stroboscopic emergency lights atop police cars and other emergency vehicles or used on highway signage to warn of road hazards and dangerous conditions. Photograhers, including myself, still call much of our flash gear "strobes".

The term "speedlight" was once another generic term for electronic flash because of its very short flash duration that could freeze motion whe the fals was the primary light source. Early modes operated on an extremely high voltage and relatively low capacitance due to the use of oil-filled capacitors which stored less energy and discharged faster. Fast durations of 1/100,000sec. or shorter was not uncommon. The advent of more efficient electrolytic capacitors, lower voltages, and high capacitance enabled ample output and longer but still motion-freezing properties. In the early days, the faster shorter flash duration enabled extreme motion capture such as speeding bullets in flight. Some of the high-powered units that consist of power packs and wired lamp heads, in the 2400 watt/second range may have a duration as "slow" as 1/300 sec.

Nowadays, the "SPEEDLIGHT" is usually a smaller flash unit that is mounted on the cameras' "hot shoe". Someof some camer manufacturers have branded some of their flas unit models as "Speedlights" Some Speedlights and similar models will have extremely short flas duration weh set a low powere either manually or through a TTL exposure control system.

Flaslamps or flash bulbs are different species of flash. They are 1-shot disposable lamps that come in differet outputs. There were at one time various modes with longer and shorter flash durations based on the time that it took the zirconium foil or wire and/or gas in the lamp to remain burning. There wew long, short, and medium peak lamps to accompany differet shutter synchronization requirements for more to less ligh output, special delays for focal-plane shutters, and gas-filled models that kind of mimicked electronic flash duration but were also 1-shot disposables. Most of the specialized flash lamps are long out of manufacture and have become a niche market item.

All ofhte above is very basic and in many instances, "old school" theory inthat many of today's flash units and systems have far more sophisticated circuitry and automation. There is HHS that enables synchronization at higher than recommended normal shutter speeds and all kinds of exposure control devices. Nonetheless, at the heart tof every unt is some stepped-up high voltage, stored in capacitors, and discharged in a pulse, into the flas tube on firing. The energy ionizes the xenon gas in the tube thereby causing the flash.


.
It's a matter of nomenclature, photo slang, and ge... (show quote)


Shapiro, as usual, posts good solid information that more than answers the question that was asked.

Reply
Mar 21, 2023 14:08:20   #
dbrugger25 Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
When I had a Speed Graphic I carried a canvas bag that contained my extra film carriers and had a compartment for the big flash bulbs. I also wore a glove on my left hand for handling the hot bulbs.

Reply
 
 
Mar 21, 2023 14:23:41   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
eagle80 wrote:
Is a strobe flash faster than a regular flash?


The question is not specific. 'Regular' flash is a time-dependent description. Yes, the Graphlex cameras used flash bulbs and other cameras of that era used small flash bulbs or flash cubes which were the second generation flash after flash powder. Third generation was strobe. I used one in the '50s. Current cameras with flash use a small strobe because it doesn't use expendable items and current cameras are all electronic. So which one is a 'regular' flash?

The strobe flash is generated by a discharge in a glass (or quartz) tube. The duration of the light is in the range of 1 microsecond to 1 millisecond. The duration can depend strongly on the power setting of the flash.

So if you consider a 'regular' flash as a built-in to a current camera, the answer is 'it depends'.

And HSS is a whole nother ball of wax.

Reply
Mar 21, 2023 15:26:19   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
MrPhotog wrote:
These initialisms sometimes throw me off, but I think it is HSS (not HHS) for High (shutter) Speed Sync.

The latest ‘flash’ for photographers is a pulse of light from LEDs. This is the common ‘flash’ on a cell phone camera, and often uses the phone’s built-in LED flashlight. No high voltage, big capacitors to recharge, or Xenon-filled glass tubes.

Since the light is very brief, and the voltage low, the LED doesn’t get cooked by its own heat, even if it gets a bit more electricity than it is normally rated for, and shines a bit brighter than normal. Some studio lights use a dimmer setting for posing lights, and then create a brighter flash from the LEDs when the shutter opens.

These lights also work well for shooting movies, which can be done with cell phones and many digital cameras.

Also, they can create a true stroboscopic effect since they can turn on and off so quickly.
These initialisms sometimes throw me off, but I th... (show quote)


Yes! Sorry for the type TYPO, it is a high-speed synch- HSS!

I have ab LED "flash" in my cell phone but I am not familiar with any high powere FLASH based on LED technology that has the same output in LUMANS as say a 1200 or 24000 watt. second system or higher. This may exist but I m not aware of it. I realize there have been many advances in LED-based continuous light sources with greater output and color temperature adjustability but I am still on electronic flash at my studio and for most of my location work. I suspect that many of the strobe-like signal devices on emergency vehicles may be LED rather than pulsed Xenon.

As for my previous post, I just attempted to answer the OP's question as simply as possible in that I assumed he was not at all familiar with basic electronic flash technology- old-school or more advanced models. Many of the latest popular flash units and systems, although they are more sophisticated than their ancestors, still operate relatively high voltages and cpapcitors. Input power to the flash tube is still expressed in watt-seconds. Many of the electro-mechanical and electromagnetic components have been replaced by smaller and lighter solid-state circuitry and most modern units and system have exposure management features that are integrated with various cameras.

I have been at flash photography since was 9 yearsold and later in life used flashbulbs professionally before most studios trended to electronic flash. My first professional flash system was made by Ascorlight and the power supply harbored about 5,00O volts. My first "portable" electronic flash unit was also made by Ascorlight and operated at a mere 500-Vots and outputted 200 watt-seconds at full power. The shoulder-carried power pack weighed in at 13 Lbs!

Funny- HHS is fashioned after the monster PRESS-50 LONG PEAK flashbulbs. They stayed lit longer to accommodate the focal-plane shutter travel of my old Speed Graphic.

Reply
Mar 23, 2023 08:41:59   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
It's a matter of nomenclature, photo slang, and general usage of words vs scientific language.

A general-purpose electronic flash unit or system is a so-called Speedlights, "strobe", or monolight, powere pack wired to the lamp head system ARE simply ELECTRONIC FLASH, Photographers call these "strobes, studio strobes, etc, because these all operate on similar electronic principles but most general purpose flash gear is no REALLY STROBOSCIPIC light sources. Actual STROBES not only provide flashes of light of very short duration but are also capable of rapidly repeating bursts that can be adjusted to fire various frequencies. The reuse in musical performances and stage shows for various animated effects is used scientifically to analyze notions, and photographically for special effects. You might see stroboscopic emergency lights atop police cars and other emergency vehicles or used on highway signage to warn of road hazards and dangerous conditions. Photograhers, including myself, still call much of our flash gear "strobes".

The term "speedlight" was once another generic term for electronic flash because of its very short flash duration that could freeze motion whe the fals was the primary light source. Early modes operated on an extremely high voltage and relatively low capacitance due to the use of oil-filled capacitors which stored less energy and discharged faster. Fast durations of 1/100,000sec. or shorter was not uncommon. The advent of more efficient electrolytic capacitors, lower voltages, and high capacitance enabled ample output and longer but still motion-freezing properties. In the early days, the faster shorter flash duration enabled extreme motion capture such as speeding bullets in flight. Some of the high-powered units that consist of power packs and wired lamp heads, in the 2400 watt/second range may have a duration as "slow" as 1/300 sec.

Nowadays, the "SPEEDLIGHT" is usually a smaller flash unit that is mounted on the cameras' "hot shoe". Someof some camer manufacturers have branded some of their flas unit models as "Speedlights" Some Speedlights and similar models will have extremely short flas duration weh set a low powere either manually or through a TTL exposure control system.

Flaslamps or flash bulbs are different species of flash. They are 1-shot disposable lamps that come in differet outputs. There were at one time various modes with longer and shorter flash durations based on the time that it took the zirconium foil or wire and/or gas in the lamp to remain burning. There wew long, short, and medium peak lamps to accompany differet shutter synchronization requirements for more to less ligh output, special delays for focal-plane shutters, and gas-filled models that kind of mimicked electronic flash duration but were also 1-shot disposables. Most of the specialized flash lamps are long out of manufacture and have become a niche market item.

All ofhte above is very basic and in many instances, "old school" theory inthat many of today's flash units and systems have far more sophisticated circuitry and automation. There is HHS that enables synchronization at higher than recommended normal shutter speeds and all kinds of exposure control devices. Nonetheless, at the heart tof every unt is some stepped-up high voltage, stored in capacitors, and discharged in a pulse, into the flas tube on firing. The energy ionizes the xenon gas in the tube thereby causing the flash.


.
It's a matter of nomenclature, photo slang, and ge... (show quote)


Thanks for inserting intelligence into the discussion.

Reply
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