Strobe light for stacking: I'm considering purchase of a 110V studio strobe light for use in macro stacking up to about 10:1. I've found units as little as 160W but none of them...

jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska

I'm considering purchase of a 110V studio strobe light for use in macro stacking up to about 10:1. I've found units as little as 160W but none of them indicate how that relates to a guide number. Can anyone can tell me if a 160W strobe would be sufficient for macro stacking use or do I need something more powerful?
Thanks for your help.

Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis

jackm1943 wrote:

I'm considering purchase of a 110V studio strobe light for use in macro stacking up to about 10:1. I've found units as little as 160W but none of them indicate how that relates to a guide number. Can anyone can tell me if a 160W strobe would be sufficient for macro stacking use or do I need something more powerful?
Thanks for your help.

I use three highly diffused Alien Bee's 1-B400, 2-B800 for my focus stacking, but my stacks very seldom go over 30 shots. they are controlled with a wired remote using a slider, I can't remember the exact range of adjustment
If I were shooting stacks of very small subjects requiring hundreds of shots I wouldn't use the strobes.

I have changed the light placement since this image was taken, the light on the left was moved overhead and a B800 put in it's place.

(Download)

jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska

Manglesphoto wrote:

I use three highly diffused Alien Bee's 1-B400, 2-B800 for my focus stacking, but my stacks very seldom go over 30 shots. they are controlled with a wired remote using a slider, I can't remember the exact range of adjustment
If I were shooting stacks of very small subjects requiring hundreds of shots I wouldn't use the strobes.

Thanks Manglesphoto. I'm going to check the specs on the Alien Bee's. Most of my 10X stacks are between 50 and 150 shots, sometimes more, with 5 micron steps. I'm currently using two daylight LED bulbs but my shutter speed can sometimes be several seconds. Even tho everything is on a concrete floor I think I'm seeing some camera or subject movement. I want to get the shutter speed sped up a bit and am hoping a 110 strobe might be the answer.
JackM

Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis

jackm1943 wrote:

Thanks Manglesphoto. I'm going to check the specs on the Alien Bee's. Most of my 10X stacks are between 50 and 150 shots, sometimes more, with 5 micron steps. I'm currently using two daylight LED bulbs but my shutter speed can sometimes be several seconds. Even tho everything is on a concrete floor I think I'm seeing some camera or subject movement. I want to get the shutter speed sped up a bit and am hoping a 110 strobe might be the answer.
JackM

The strobes will do it but if you're shooting insects etc. it will be difficult to control the direction of lights.
What aperture are you using ?
large apertures and you won't be able control the exposures with the A/B's, I shoot small apertures 99% of the time.
Check with Sippyjug he is much better than I will ever be on the small stuff.

jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska

Manglesphoto wrote:

The strobes will do it but if you're shooting insects etc. it will be difficult to control the direction of lights.
What aperture are you using ?
large apertures and you won't be able control the exposures with the A/B's, I shoot small apertures 99% of the time.
Check with Sippyjug he is much better than I will ever be on the small stuff.

Thanks. At 4X and 10X I'm using microscope objectives, finite for 4X and infinite for 10X. I'm calculating for an aperture of about f/4. It's the 10X shots that I'm having to use longer exposures. Just a truck driving by can cause some shaking I think, that's why I would like to switch to strobes.

Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis

jackm1943 wrote:

Thanks. At 4X and 10X I'm using microscope objectives, finite for 4X and infinite for 10X. I'm calculating for an aperture of about f/4. It's the 10X shots that I'm having to use longer exposures. Just a truck driving by can cause some shaking I think, that's why I would like to switch to strobes.

You can use small speedlights
I have and sometimes use Nikon R1C1 macro strobe set but its expensive

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/flashes/r1c1-wireless-close-up-speedlight-system.html

jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska

Manglesphoto wrote:

You can use small speedlights
I have and sometimes use Nikon R1C1 macro strobe set but its expensive

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/flashes/r1c1-wireless-close-up-speedlight-system.html

Thanks. My issue with using my speedlight is that if I need 200-300 images it will run out of battery power and recharging time will be too long. I want something I can plug into a 110V outlet and will recycle every one or two seconds.

Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis

jackm1943 wrote:

Thanks. My issue with using my speedlight is that if I need 200-300 images it will run out of battery power and recharging time will be too long. I want something I can plug into a 110V outlet and will recycle every one or two seconds.

Okay, just an idea
Will be interesting to see how things work out

Dik

jackm1943 wrote:

Thanks. At 4X and 10X I'm using microscope objectives, finite for 4X and infinite for 10X. I'm calculating for an aperture of about f/4. It's the 10X shots that I'm having to use longer exposures. Just a truck driving by can cause some shaking I think, that's why I would like to switch to strobes.

At 10X vibration is a huge problem. Even on a concrete slab. The solution is to tie camera and subject as rigidly as you can so that they move as one piece. Then isolate the rig from floor transmitted vibrations by hanging it from long bungee cords.

Dik

jackm1943 wrote:

Thanks Manglesphoto. I'm going to check the specs on the Alien Bee's. Most of my 10X stacks are between 50 and 150 shots, sometimes more, with 5 micron steps. I'm currently using two daylight LED bulbs but my shutter speed can sometimes be several seconds. Even tho everything is on a concrete floor I think I'm seeing some camera or subject movement. I want to get the shutter speed sped up a bit and am hoping a 110 strobe might be the answer.
JackM

At 10X, you might need steps even smaller than 5 microns. I would worry about firing the number of shots required with no cooling off period. If overheating doesn't shut it down, would not the color temperature change as the flash tube gets extra hot?

jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska

Dik wrote:

At 10X vibration is a huge problem. Even on a concrete slab. The solution is to tie camera and subject as rigidly as you can so that they move as one piece. Then isolate the rig from floor transmitted vibrations by hanging it from long bungee cords.

Yikes, that's quite a rig. Thanks, Dik, for sending the pic.

Up to now, I've been using a heavy tripod (Bogen 3033 with geared head) to hold the WeMacro, next to a heavy metal desk holding the subject, both resting on my concrete basement floor. Today I'm doing some tests using a Platypod type plate with a heavy ballhead to hold the WeMacro, with both it and the subject on the metal table. I hope to see one or more stacking worms to see how straight the movement is. I plan to take at least 100 pics at 5 micron increments for each test.
JackM

jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska

Dik wrote:

At 10X, you might need steps even smaller than 5 microns. I would worry about firing the number of shots required with no cooling off period. If overheating doesn't shut it down, would not the color temperature change as the flash tube gets extra hot?

According to my charts, the DOF for this lens is about 9 microns, which allows about 30-40% overlap. So far, I've not seen any banding using 5 micron steps. I don't know enough about strobes to know if overheating could be a problem. It's something I should look into.
Thanks, JackM

sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri

Jack, I'd be embarrassed to admit to how many experiments I have performed in illumination and diffusion. I came to the same point that you have arrived at which is experimenting with studio strobes for the same reasons.

I used 160-watt strobes and they worked pretty well, except that they were inexpensive with no cooling fan. Making a short story shorter...they pooped out on me and that was the end of them. I believe that if you can find ones that are fan cooled and rated for high usage they should perform the way that you would hope.

My thought on vibration is that it becomes an issue when either the camera or the subject moves independently of the other. When they are moving in unison, the centerline between them does not change which is why I am a proponent of mounting the subject and the camera on the same sub straight.

Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis

jackm1943 wrote:

According to my charts, the DOF for this lens is about 9 microns, which allows about 30-40% overlap. So far, I've not seen any banding using 5 micron steps. I don't know enough about strobes to know if overheating could be a problem. It's something I should look into.
Thanks, JackM

Jak
the A/B strobes on 1/32 power should hold up pretty well and at that power they will have to be diffused quite a bit At the aperture you are using.
Paul C Buff has always had a great warranty and Customer service.

Dik

Manglesphoto wrote:

Jak
the A/B strobes on 1/32 power should hold up pretty well and at that power they will have to be diffused quite a bit At the aperture you are using.
Paul C Buff has always had a great warranty and Customer service.

Would you be willing to try one of your A/Bs at 1/32 power for 150 flashes at minimum recycle time, and tell us if it survives?