fredtoo Loc: Houston

Please don't provide the usual answer to what is the difference between Auto and Program modes. I understand the difference of operation, and I prefer the use of P over A for better control. I have recently "graduated" from a D7200 to a D850. The 850 has no Auto mode...no problem, I won't miss it. But I was unhappy with the color and exposure of several shots under certain conditions in P mode, so out of curiosity I performed a very simple experiment:

I grabbed my trusty 7200 and took 2 shots of in indoor still life without flash. One in Auto and the next in P mode. I expected them to be pretty much the same, but they were not. Surprisingly the shot made in Auto mode was had color and exposure much closer to the actual subject, and I think anyone looking at the two shots would agree.

So I'm left wondering why, and wondering what would need to be done in P mode to match the color accuracy of the shot made in Auto? In my mind any difference between the two should have been in exposure, but not color. seems to me that any of the several different combinations of exposure and shutter speed that I could have selected should not have any significant effect on color. Am I wrong about that?

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

Without seeing the results we can’t know what’s going on. It would also help to know exactly what settings the camera used for both A and P modes. I would also conjecture that A and P on the same camera should give pretty much the same exposure assuming they’re using the same metering method. If there is a difference in exposure that could certainly affect the appearance of the colors. If one shot is much higher ISO it can affect the dynamic range which can also affect the colors. What happens if you use P mode and dial up the same settings you got in A?

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

Why not post your shots? Then we can see if anyone would agree.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

An exposure difference will lighten/darken colors.
Did you meter on the same spot (area) for each shot?
What does the image data say was the exposure for each shot.

Grahame Loc: Fiji

Did the lighting indoors remain constant between the time you took the first shot, then adjusted and took the second shot? Was the lighting, if any additional to daylight, fluorescent?

If you post the two images (using store original) the Exif will be available for investigation and others will be able to see the 'difference' which is more important than the accuracy.

fredtoo Loc: Houston

I may have to repeat the experiment in order to provide the info. that responders are requesting, but easy enough to do.

I wonder how other folks have ever tried this. You can do it while sitting on your sofa, and in fact that is probably even best, as you don't have to worry about passing clouds changing the lighting.

In answer to the last posting, there was absolutely no difference in the lighting, it was 100% incandescent, and the 2 shots were taken about 15 seconds apart.

The scary part of the responses I am seeing is that now in addition to shutter speed, and DOF when making exposure/speed selections...it seems that now I may also need to be concerned with color accuracy. If so, that takes it to a new level and with a lot of trial and error.

fwt

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

How is your D850 otherwise set up? Auto also enables Auto White Balance and does a bunch of other stuff on your D7200. Your D850 would require Auto WB to be enabled separately. Auto will also invoke various "Scene Modes." Your D850 does not have Scene Modes either, but does have a fairly extensive set of Picture Controls which can be manually adjusted. (Please note that if your D850 is new out-of-the-box, these picture controls will be set up and default-selected to produce a relatively drab JPEG image.)

Check your manual, read, and experiment.

fredtoo Loc: Houston

(Please note that if your D850 is new out-of-the-box, these picture controls will be set up and default-selected to produce a relatively drab JPEG image.)

yes it is "fresh", and of course I have done some tinkering with the menu. Interesting thought that I will certainly pursue. It may explain some of the "lifelessness" of the 850 shots, especially under somber skies.

However, keep in mind that the 2-photo experiment was done with the 7200, first in Auto and then in P-mode. But your suggestion probably would apply for that camera as well. P-mode may need help with white balance issues in the 7200 as well. I had assumed that the colors would look the same for Auto and P-mode. But I can see that there is more to it than just selecting aperture and speed.

thanks,
fwt

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

Did you delete your two test shots? What white balance setting did you use?

Grahame Loc: Fiji

I only have a Z6 that's got an 'Auto' mode and have just tried it for the first time ever. Took one shot in Auto and the other in Manual/Auto ISO and the colours are very different due to the WB (white balance).

Suggest that is your problem, and you can verify easily in your raw converter.

Edit - Same significant colour WB difference between 'Auto' and 'P' modes and on this camera it appears you can not adjust WB when in 'Auto'.

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

<Edit> I read your description again of the experiment with the D7200. (Misread it the first time.) Looks like the D7200 may put things back the way they were when leaving Auto...

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Per your request I just compared Program to green zone full Auto. They look plainly different. No sooprize there. Personalized settings were maintained in Program, but not in Auto. No mystery. I used a Sony.

Without deeper analysis one very obvious change was that Auto sped up the shutter by 2EV and equally raised the ISO. F/stop was unchanged. Despite that supposed equalization, the histograms are very different and the playback images differ in brightness.

Having discovered this "anomaly" I will ignore it. You might as well do the same.

fredtoo Loc: Houston

I agree, it is a white balance thing...sort of. I did the experiment again, and because people wanted photos uploaded, I transferred them to my laptop. The following is what I have learned from this experiment:

1. In the original 2 shots on the 7200 (one in Auto and one in P-mode), I never removed them from the camera. I was judging them strictly on how they looked on the camera's LCD screen. The difference in color was striking. Unfortunately, I am the only one in the discussion that gets to see them this way.

2. I took 3 more photos of the same object in the same lighting.
First shot in Auto mode, which sets WB in Auto1 and cannot be changed. The colors were true to my
liking on this shot (with warm accentuated).

The second shot was in P-mode, but I set WB to the same Auto1. On the camera screen the colors were
pretty different. But much closer together when downloaded to the laptop, where the colors were a bit
cooler, but still acceptably close to actual.

Then I took a third shot, this one in P-mode but changed the WB to Auto2 (Auto1 & Auto2 are the only 2
auto options on the 7200). On the laptop this third photo in P-mode Auto2 looked almost identical in
color (especially warmth) as the first shot which was in Auto-mode with the default Auto1. Go figure.

So my lessons learned are: You can't really trust the camera's LCD screen for evaluating color. photos that look very different on the camera screen can look much more similar on the computer screen. Don't know why.

WB Auto1 means something different in Auto-Mode than it does in P-Mode. Don't know why.

And most particularly, I need to pay more attention to White Balance when shooting.

None of this evaluation during shooting was available in film, and to cover your bases meant burning up a lot of film in bracketing for exposure, and also WB (if you thought such was important in those days...and it usually meant buying a different type of film, or applying a particular filter in difficult lighting situations). So hey I miss film even less now than ever before!

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I see your three new shots as clearly all different. The colors, in order, are rosy, neutral, and yellow.

I never run such tests. OTOH, I set my exposures by estimation plus playback histogram, and set WB by whim. In this way Im never puzzled by the results, which are usually well in line with my expectations. My SOP is raw+fine jpeg, which means Ive got "insurance".

camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.

With a Nikon camera an AUTO mode and P is an auto mode the colors should remain the same if the exposure is right. I am sure we are talking JPEG because shooting RAW data no color space is embedded.