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What is Color?
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Nov 22, 2022 05:09:16   #
User ID
 
Ysarex wrote:
OK, so you didn't want to ask the question; "What is Color?" You want to talk about something else related to color?

Right. And clearly that "something" is "Where does it come from" rather than "What is it ?".

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Nov 22, 2022 05:09:37   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Doyle Thomas wrote:
What is Color?

As most Photographers know colors are wavelengths of light reflected off an object. "Color by the Numbers” But, what is a color and why does a given object reflect the wavelengths and harmonics that it does.

Think of a cube and one side of that cube.










One side of that cube is called a facet and most materials have a crystallin structure with many facets. Depending on the material the facets may have about any shape, size, and orientation. The facet or facets of the outermost layer of molecules are what reflect light in the wavelengths and harmonics that it does.

Some materials are amorphous, a non- crystallin structure. These materials do not reflect color however they may contain other molecules that do.



Copywrite 2022 Gary Doyle Thomas PrimaryFocusPhoto.com
What is Color? br br As most Photographers know c... (show quote)


Copywrite?

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Nov 22, 2022 05:10:13   #
User ID
 
Doyle Thomas wrote:
again i iterate that while how the brain perceives color is of concern, that is not the point.

http://www.primaryfocusphoto.com/color-by-the-numbers/ and

http://www.primaryfocusphoto.com/why-color/ address some of these issues.

Self citation ? Reeeeeeally ??!?!?

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Nov 22, 2022 05:49:25   #
dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida
 
Emotional content of color... the early only church, catholic, attached symbology to colors and probably influenced how people saw color. Pagans used bright sinful colors, and were destroyed as to cleanse the world.
https://www.crivoice.org/symbols/colorsmeaning.html

We knew at the Saturday double feature movie, a form of baby sitting, that white hat and horse was the good guy and black hat was the villein. Through out life, color is influenced by attachment; the red light district did not symbolize bakeries.
https://eclecticwitchcraft.com/the-color-white-in-witchcraft-the-spiritual-meaning-of-the-color-white/

Color we do not see, but Bees do. IR and Astro converted cameras see the world different and visually say so when we look at the images.
https://news.ncsu.edu/2011/07/wms-what-bees-see/

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Nov 22, 2022 06:07:32   #
jcboy3
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
If a tree falls in the forest and no one sees it, what color were the leaves?


You assume it has leaves. Most trees that fall in the forest don't have leaves.

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Nov 22, 2022 08:03:08   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Doyle Thomas wrote:
!!!???!!! color exists in the real world and interact with the brain but it is in the Mind that they are interpreted. just because a color does not speak to some does not mean that it does not speak.

Last time I had colors speaking to me was in the late 60's......

(Just kidding.)


They "exist" by the difference in wavelengths of light an item reflects.
Out eyes sense the different wavelengths, and our mind interprets them.
Those differences we have defined as "colors".

Perception.....

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Nov 22, 2022 08:32:09   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
All we really need to understand color and to make pretty pictures ...





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Nov 22, 2022 08:36:21   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Bill_de wrote:
All we really need to understand color and to make pretty pictures ...


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Nov 22, 2022 08:40:54   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
Doyle Thomas wrote:
What is Color?

As most Photographers know colors are wavelengths of light reflected off an object. "Color by the Numbers” But, what is a color and why does a given object reflect the wavelengths and harmonics that it does.

Think of a cube and one side of that cube.










One side of that cube is called a facet and most materials have a crystallin structure with many facets. Depending on the material the facets may have about any shape, size, and orientation. The facet or facets of the outermost layer of molecules are what reflect light in the wavelengths and harmonics that it does.

Some materials are amorphous, a non- crystallin structure. These materials do not reflect color however they may contain other molecules that do.



Copywrite 2022 Gary Doyle Thomas PrimaryFocusPhoto.com
What is Color? br br As most Photographers know c... (show quote)


The physics here is quite bad. Compounds that are colored have conjugated pi bonds or are heavy metal complexes that have d orbitals. Materials that are colored may be solid, liquid (often a solution) or gas. The electron orbital structure of the relevant atoms determines which wavelengths of light that are absorbed and whicht are transmitted or reflected. Oil paints used by artists contain pigments that are composed metallic compounds that contain Cadmium, Iron, Copper, Nickel etc. The pesky d orbitals are responsible here. Organic molecules that have extensive networks of pi bonds often appear to be yellow. The pi bond network absorbs ultra violet and blue light. Removing blue light from white light light leaves yellow.

The perception of color, of course, depends on our eyes and brain. Our eyes are not very different from our camera sensors with regard to the basic principles. Defects in our eyes can produce various types of color blindness. Color blind individuals will perceive color differently from normal people and what would be suggested by the spectroscopy.

Interestingly, brown is dark yellow.

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Nov 22, 2022 08:45:13   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
I see colors, as I'm pulling up my pant legs.
(Too late to save my shoes.)

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Nov 22, 2022 08:59:02   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
This is a discussion that could potentially go on forever. We all know what color is, but we can't explain it to the satisfaction of everyone else. 😁

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Nov 22, 2022 09:03:15   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
jerryc41 wrote:
This is a discussion that could potentially go on forever. We all know what color is, but we can't explain it to the satisfaction of everyone else. 😁



That's because everyone has a better definition.

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Nov 22, 2022 10:52:14   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Doyle Thomas wrote:
i am trying to define how the color of an object is seen and color is a range of wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum.


Doyle, when a tree falls in a forest and there are no animals around to hear it, there ARE vibrations, but there is no sound. Sound is CAUSED by air pressure changes vibrating the ear drum and stimulating structures of the inner ear to trigger neurons in the brain. Sight is CAUSED by light hitting receptors in our eyes that signal the visual cortex to interpret those signals.

Color, like sound, is a perception. It is not a range of electromagnetic radiation spectrum. It is how an individual's eyes and brain *respond* to that spectrum of radiation.

As I know from running a color correction department in a major portrait lab, color perception varies from person to person, sometimes moment to moment, and depends on many factors:

Sleep, or lack thereof, can narrow color perception or bias it in one direction.

Diet β€” People who consistently eat a wide variety of fruits and vegetables, eat quality protein sources, and avoid junk foods simply see color more accurately.

Surroundings β€” bright colors will cause visual fatigue, suppressing the predominant color

Emotional state β€” calm vs highly upset vs aroused vs distracted β€” meditation helps!

Illness β€” can cause chemical imbalances that affect vision

Caffeine, cold medications, prescription drugs, recreational drug use β€” all cause erratic inconsistent judgments of colors.

CHANGES in consumption patterns of caffeine or drugs will cause a noticeable shift in perception.

CHANGES from a bright environment to a dark environment require a period of adaptation. We evaluated color in a fairly dim, neutral gray room that was lit at a known brightness level and color temperature. If an employee took lunch in bright sun on the patio, they had paperwork duties for 20 minutes when they came back! Many were willing to do that. The lab was lit throughout at 5000K, the floors and walls were neutral gray or white, and the furniture was gray, too.

Heredity β€” color blindness, anyone? It's more common than we think. Some people are slightly color challenged and don't know it until they are tested.

Sex at birth β€” Men can discern roughly 4000 hues, while women can see roughly 7000.

AGE β€” eye health can deteriorate along with other bodily functions and bias or narrow the range of colors perceived. Diabetes can

Hormones can alter color perception. Women on hormonal birth control seem to see fewer shifts in their color perception. A pregnant woman's color vision can vary from day to day.

When color photography is your livelihood, you form positive habits that favor doing it consistently and accurately. In the lab, we educated all our color technicians about these factors. Their immediate supervisor reported to me, and understood all of this. She was very popular with her employees because she was an empath who would work with them when their vision was off. They were tested to get their jobs, and regularly thereafter, to see how consistent their vision was. We would move them to another part of the lab to do a different job, temporarily, if they needed to "ride out a change" in their ability to evaluate color consistently. It was that important.

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Nov 22, 2022 11:07:25   #
POVDOV
 
My mind is now messed

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Nov 22, 2022 11:10:16   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
burkphoto wrote:
Doyle, when a tree falls in a forest and there are no animals around to hear it, there ARE vibrations, but there is no sound. Sound is CAUSED by air pressure changes vibrating the ear drum and stimulating structures of the inner ear to trigger neurons in the brain. Sight is CAUSED by light hitting receptors in our eyes that signal the visual cortex to interpret those signals.

Color, like sound, is a perception. It is not a range of electromagnetic radiation spectrum. It is how an individual's eyes and brain *respond* to that spectrum of radiation.

As I know from running a color correction department in a major portrait lab, color perception varies from person to person, sometimes moment to moment, and depends on many factors:

Sleep, or lack thereof, can narrow color perception or bias it in one direction.

Diet β€” People who consistently eat a wide variety of fruits and vegetables, eat quality protein sources, and avoid junk foods simply see color more accurately.

Surroundings β€” bright colors will cause visual fatigue, suppressing the predominant color

Emotional state β€” calm vs highly upset vs aroused vs distracted β€” meditation helps!

Illness β€” can cause chemical imbalances that affect vision

Caffeine, cold medications, prescription drugs, recreational drug use β€” all cause erratic inconsistent judgments of colors.

CHANGES in consumption patterns of caffeine or drugs will cause a noticeable shift in perception.

CHANGES from a bright environment to a dark environment require a period of adaptation. We evaluated color in a fairly dim, neutral gray room that was lit at a known brightness level and color temperature. If an employee took lunch in bright sun on the patio, they had paperwork duties for 20 minutes when they came back! Many were willing to do that. The lab was lit throughout at 5000K, the floors and walls were neutral gray or white, and the furniture was gray, too.

Heredity β€” color blindness, anyone? It's more common than we think. Some people are slightly color challenged and don't know it until they are tested.

Sex at birth β€” Men can discern roughly 4000 hues, while women can see roughly 7000.

AGE β€” eye health can deteriorate along with other bodily functions and bias or narrow the range of colors perceived. Diabetes can

Hormones can alter color perception. Women on hormonal birth control seem to see fewer shifts in their color perception. A pregnant woman's color vision can vary from day to day.

When color photography is your livelihood, you form positive habits that favor doing it consistently and accurately. In the lab, we educated all our color technicians about these factors. Their immediate supervisor reported to me, and understood all of this. She was very popular with her employees because she was an empath who would work with them when their vision was off. They were tested to get their jobs, and regularly thereafter, to see how consistent their vision was. We would move them to another part of the lab to do a different job, temporarily, if they needed to "ride out a change" in their ability to evaluate color consistently. It was that important.
Doyle, when a tree falls in a forest and there are... (show quote)

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?
It depends.........
According to a physicist, yes, vibrations in the air caused by impact of the tree on the ground (and other things).
According to an audiologist, no, a sound is something that is heard.
(I'll go with the physicist. The sound simply fell off (attenuated) with the distance, not to be heard if one is too far away.)

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