For Portraits - B and W vs Color
Nov 18, 2022 09:36:31 #
I have always loved the idea of Black and White for portraits of people. I feel it lends itself to show character.
Color seems to be better for showing the culture of my subject. I do however enjoy shooting both.
I have found that when I show people their photos in B and W they are super impressed. That could be due to the novelty of the idea of nostalgia's appeal.
There is also sepia which people seem to like at some times.
Any ideas here?
Color seems to be better for showing the culture of my subject. I do however enjoy shooting both.
I have found that when I show people their photos in B and W they are super impressed. That could be due to the novelty of the idea of nostalgia's appeal.
There is also sepia which people seem to like at some times.
Any ideas here?
Nov 18, 2022 09:37:44 #
Nov 18, 2022 09:47:11 #
Nov 18, 2022 09:56:53 #
Nov 18, 2022 13:39:03 #
"I have always loved the idea of Black and White for portraits of people..."
Ellen since you were Born and raised in NYC which is the center of the universe for high end commercial photography this rings oh so true... Virtually all major advertising agencies (as well as the top model agencies) are located there. You're lucky to be situated there... I'm so envious
That said, long ago the adage "Beauty is in the eyes of the checkbook holder" hit home for me...
As a portrait photographer (as well as a bridal makeup artist) paying the bills is extremely high on the agenda.
Have you had a gallery show in your market Ellen? This is how I formally entered the commercial arena.
While the recompense from taking honors barely covered my cost the work those credentials garnered was key for starting my career in commercial photography (just a thought).
Ellen do you have a studio where you conduct business? If so adorn it with the visual statement you cherish most and wish to work in... Experience will guide your way.
While many may voice their preference keep in mind unless they are paying the bills with their work it is merely hearsay and as such lacks much credibility unless they can demonstrate precisely what their clients purchased.
Hope this makes sense.
Bottom Line? Who are your clients? You only have to meet and/or exceed their expectations, not impress other photographers on a public forum... While it's certainly fun to be famous, however fame and fortune are two entirely different animals.
Least I bore you with more of my experience and journey below please find a recent commercial session with an enchanting very young lady in which her mom give the nod to the B&W rendering... Once again Beauty is in the eyes of the checkbook holder, and certainly not with members of internet forums... At least if you want to generate revenue.
Best Advice? Please consider joining Flickr, there you will find many many high end commercial shooters whose work is beyond breathtaking. At least this has been what I've discovered within the current "photo sharing" sites.
Again hope this helps or is at least food for thought.
All the best on your photographic journey Ellen...
Ellen since you were Born and raised in NYC which is the center of the universe for high end commercial photography this rings oh so true... Virtually all major advertising agencies (as well as the top model agencies) are located there. You're lucky to be situated there... I'm so envious
That said, long ago the adage "Beauty is in the eyes of the checkbook holder" hit home for me...
As a portrait photographer (as well as a bridal makeup artist) paying the bills is extremely high on the agenda.
Have you had a gallery show in your market Ellen? This is how I formally entered the commercial arena.
While the recompense from taking honors barely covered my cost the work those credentials garnered was key for starting my career in commercial photography (just a thought).
Ellen do you have a studio where you conduct business? If so adorn it with the visual statement you cherish most and wish to work in... Experience will guide your way.
While many may voice their preference keep in mind unless they are paying the bills with their work it is merely hearsay and as such lacks much credibility unless they can demonstrate precisely what their clients purchased.
Hope this makes sense.
Bottom Line? Who are your clients? You only have to meet and/or exceed their expectations, not impress other photographers on a public forum... While it's certainly fun to be famous, however fame and fortune are two entirely different animals.
Least I bore you with more of my experience and journey below please find a recent commercial session with an enchanting very young lady in which her mom give the nod to the B&W rendering... Once again Beauty is in the eyes of the checkbook holder, and certainly not with members of internet forums... At least if you want to generate revenue.
Best Advice? Please consider joining Flickr, there you will find many many high end commercial shooters whose work is beyond breathtaking. At least this has been what I've discovered within the current "photo sharing" sites.
Again hope this helps or is at least food for thought.
All the best on your photographic journey Ellen...
Nov 18, 2022 16:22:10 #
I have been shootg portraits, commercially, for a very long time and frankly, it is my first love of professional photography.
There is a lot of folklore, myth, truisms, and some valid philosophies about monochrome vs. color. Some folks profess that black-and-white images are more dramatic, show more character, are more artistic, etc., while others pontificate about the glory of full color.
My opinion and practice on the matter. First of all, each photographer is entitled to their own unique approach in deciding how they or want to interpret any given subject and there's no right or wrong way when it comes to mediums. I do not confine myself to one methodology or approach simply because each subject is different and sho is portrayed in a way that is compatible with the age, lifestyle, character, actual appearance, complexion, taste, and a very long list of characteristics. In commercial work, I also have to consider the usage of the image and the "statement that the client wants to make with the photograph.
The interpretation of "character" and drama is not completely dependent on the medium used- color or black and white. Lighting application, pose, capturing of expression, rendition of texture, softness, or hardness can be addressed in both mediums.
Attached are two "character" type portraits. In the portrait of the "Monk", I want to emphasize his "character" and facial features. For the image of the "Chief of Police" I wanted to retain character but also need to show the colors of the detail on the uniform, his decorations, the flag, etc. The Chief's portrait does nto lack personality or drama.
I usually decide on my approach to medium prior to the shoot rath which converts a color image to black and white. Although I am now doing all my work digitally, I prefer what with film, I used to call a proper panchromatic rendition where I cou pre-visualize the tones in monochrome as they will appear in the final print as opposed to guessing and end up merging shades and lack of separation after the fact.
I try to decide in advance if I want a dramatic portrat study, a fantasy-like image, or a high-key pastel-like treatment and choose my weapon accordingly.
My advice to the OP is not to worry about what others do or think and to plan your portrait session as you like. Like many of my portraot classmates, as a student, I was into the work of Yosef Karsh- all black and white. I attend a few of his lectures and he swore by black & white-ONLY!!! If, however, in his last book of famous folks, were loads of color images including Sophia Loren! My shop is in Ottawa (Canada) and for a while, Yosif and I shared the same color laboratory. I had my own in-house lab but for prints larger than 30x40 I outsourced to The Canadian Government Photo Center which took in a limited amount of commercial work. I met Mr. Karsh there frequently, I guess he was shooting lots of colors! BTW- he was a very charming gentleman and a great conversationalist.
When you shot color you become more "responsible" for certain aspects that do not affect monochromatic images. You have to consider the color of the flesh tones not only the density. There are issues with clothing and background color coordination. harmony and contrasts. Warmth or coolness of color varies the mood. A port sho makes a "statement". If you shoot a lad in a bright red dress in black and white, the dress will show in gray, possibly a darker tone in the face of the subject. The visual emphases will rem on the face and the state may be a "pretty lady"! In color, the viewer's eye will go to the point of least resistance- the bright red dress. The statement there for changes to "a bright red dress with a pretty lady"- is OK for a fashion shot but perhaps not the best for a portrait. This is not a RULE or LAW! It should just make you think about what you want to express in a portrait and what's subject wants to see or express in the final image.
There is a lot of folklore, myth, truisms, and some valid philosophies about monochrome vs. color. Some folks profess that black-and-white images are more dramatic, show more character, are more artistic, etc., while others pontificate about the glory of full color.
My opinion and practice on the matter. First of all, each photographer is entitled to their own unique approach in deciding how they or want to interpret any given subject and there's no right or wrong way when it comes to mediums. I do not confine myself to one methodology or approach simply because each subject is different and sho is portrayed in a way that is compatible with the age, lifestyle, character, actual appearance, complexion, taste, and a very long list of characteristics. In commercial work, I also have to consider the usage of the image and the "statement that the client wants to make with the photograph.
The interpretation of "character" and drama is not completely dependent on the medium used- color or black and white. Lighting application, pose, capturing of expression, rendition of texture, softness, or hardness can be addressed in both mediums.
Attached are two "character" type portraits. In the portrait of the "Monk", I want to emphasize his "character" and facial features. For the image of the "Chief of Police" I wanted to retain character but also need to show the colors of the detail on the uniform, his decorations, the flag, etc. The Chief's portrait does nto lack personality or drama.
I usually decide on my approach to medium prior to the shoot rath which converts a color image to black and white. Although I am now doing all my work digitally, I prefer what with film, I used to call a proper panchromatic rendition where I cou pre-visualize the tones in monochrome as they will appear in the final print as opposed to guessing and end up merging shades and lack of separation after the fact.
I try to decide in advance if I want a dramatic portrat study, a fantasy-like image, or a high-key pastel-like treatment and choose my weapon accordingly.
My advice to the OP is not to worry about what others do or think and to plan your portrait session as you like. Like many of my portraot classmates, as a student, I was into the work of Yosef Karsh- all black and white. I attend a few of his lectures and he swore by black & white-ONLY!!! If, however, in his last book of famous folks, were loads of color images including Sophia Loren! My shop is in Ottawa (Canada) and for a while, Yosif and I shared the same color laboratory. I had my own in-house lab but for prints larger than 30x40 I outsourced to The Canadian Government Photo Center which took in a limited amount of commercial work. I met Mr. Karsh there frequently, I guess he was shooting lots of colors! BTW- he was a very charming gentleman and a great conversationalist.
When you shot color you become more "responsible" for certain aspects that do not affect monochromatic images. You have to consider the color of the flesh tones not only the density. There are issues with clothing and background color coordination. harmony and contrasts. Warmth or coolness of color varies the mood. A port sho makes a "statement". If you shoot a lad in a bright red dress in black and white, the dress will show in gray, possibly a darker tone in the face of the subject. The visual emphases will rem on the face and the state may be a "pretty lady"! In color, the viewer's eye will go to the point of least resistance- the bright red dress. The statement there for changes to "a bright red dress with a pretty lady"- is OK for a fashion shot but perhaps not the best for a portrait. This is not a RULE or LAW! It should just make you think about what you want to express in a portrait and what's subject wants to see or express in the final image.
Nov 18, 2022 16:50:45 #
A first-class pair of portraits, but that second is really such a phenomenal, perfectly detailed beauty wherein this gentleman's very essence is fully captured 🤍🤍👑🤍🤍
Nov 18, 2022 17:03:50 #
Thomas902 wrote:
"I have always loved the idea of Black and Wh... (show quote)
Stunning duo of portraits 🥇🥇🏆🥇🥇
Nov 18, 2022 17:04:47 #
Wonderful renderings Ed... Thank you for sharing your commercial artistry, it is greatly appreciate!
We are basically on the same page regarding choice of medium... Again meeting client expectations is paramount.
Loving your second image Ed, such a poignant rending indeed... The superb finesses in handling his eye-wear lenses! this is absolutely stellar! Virtually no reflection from your key (in the paramount illumination scenario here) however the key is clearly evident in the catchlights in his eyes...
Loving the textural drama latent in his skin...
Your first image is a classic studio rendering... Tried and true... No auguring with what works...
You bonded extremely well with both of your sitters Ed... An your highly skilled directing of both talents is obvious in the excellent way they positioned their hands so as to not dominate and overpower the face... The hands in your second image are a true Tour de force of expressive dynamic. Ballerinas are high trained to express visually emotions via their hands since there is no dialog in dance to carry the story, you've taken a page from the ballerina's book here (especially in the second image) where the hands collaborate with his facial expression to convey the ultimate narrative in this breathtaking rendering.
UHH is very fortunate to have your wisdom and experience available...
All the best on your journey Ed.
You are truly a master of your craft...
We are basically on the same page regarding choice of medium... Again meeting client expectations is paramount.
Loving your second image Ed, such a poignant rending indeed... The superb finesses in handling his eye-wear lenses! this is absolutely stellar! Virtually no reflection from your key (in the paramount illumination scenario here) however the key is clearly evident in the catchlights in his eyes...
Loving the textural drama latent in his skin...
Your first image is a classic studio rendering... Tried and true... No auguring with what works...
You bonded extremely well with both of your sitters Ed... An your highly skilled directing of both talents is obvious in the excellent way they positioned their hands so as to not dominate and overpower the face... The hands in your second image are a true Tour de force of expressive dynamic. Ballerinas are high trained to express visually emotions via their hands since there is no dialog in dance to carry the story, you've taken a page from the ballerina's book here (especially in the second image) where the hands collaborate with his facial expression to convey the ultimate narrative in this breathtaking rendering.
UHH is very fortunate to have your wisdom and experience available...
All the best on your journey Ed.
You are truly a master of your craft...
Nov 19, 2022 06:39:08 #
I am not a professional portrait photographer. I have shot portraits for my own pleasure and I have shot portraits at weddings in the past. I found that a majority of the portraits I made were well accepted when offered in b&w.
If working professionally I suggest to render both versions and let the client decide.
Thomas and Mr Shapiro are both excellent photographers and I would say we are very fortunate having both.
If working professionally I suggest to render both versions and let the client decide.
Thomas and Mr Shapiro are both excellent photographers and I would say we are very fortunate having both.
Nov 19, 2022 08:20:12 #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I have been shootg portraits, commercially, for a ... (show quote)
Mr. Shapiro, thank you for sharing your knowledge, expertise, and wisdom, once again. I always learn something from your posts/responses and I really appreciate the time you take to write them. Thank you!
Patty
Nov 19, 2022 08:42:48 #
Thank you for your very kind praise for Ed & I William and your words of wisdom by allowing the client in the mix make the ultimate decision on which medium works best for their needs. We (as photographers) may have little understanding and/or appreciation on how the rendering will be displayed... Often B&W can eliminate potential color harmony conflicts which might be present in the room where it will be placed...
"...I am not a professional portrait photographer..." William I beg to question this inference. Your very poignant and endearing lifestyle serendipitous portraiture of a son and his grandfather (your dad) at a family reunion speaks to your skill and knowledge of the SB-600 speedlight in a challenging venue where your wall bounced illumination yielded wonderful results without even a trace of hard shadow. Absolutely beautiful skin tones latent within... Superb capture which I (as well as many) would rank as "commercial quality" in deliverables for a Wedding Photographer. Nope, you're far better than just very good this scenario... I'm humbled by both the generational bonding you captured in this narrative and your finesses with speedlight illumination. It's oft said the principle difference between an "enthusiast" and commercial shooter is the mastery of speedlights by the later.
Thank you so much for sharing William...
"...I am not a professional portrait photographer..." William I beg to question this inference. Your very poignant and endearing lifestyle serendipitous portraiture of a son and his grandfather (your dad) at a family reunion speaks to your skill and knowledge of the SB-600 speedlight in a challenging venue where your wall bounced illumination yielded wonderful results without even a trace of hard shadow. Absolutely beautiful skin tones latent within... Superb capture which I (as well as many) would rank as "commercial quality" in deliverables for a Wedding Photographer. Nope, you're far better than just very good this scenario... I'm humbled by both the generational bonding you captured in this narrative and your finesses with speedlight illumination. It's oft said the principle difference between an "enthusiast" and commercial shooter is the mastery of speedlights by the later.
Thank you so much for sharing William...
Nov 19, 2022 10:36:07 #
I wish I could remember the name of the portrait photographer who said something to the effect that black and white reveals the person. Color shows what they're wearing.
I think Ed's post supports that.
--Bob
I think Ed's post supports that.
--Bob
Ellen101 wrote:
I have always loved the idea of Black and White for portraits of people. I feel it lends itself to show character.
Color seems to be better for showing the culture of my subject. I do however enjoy shooting both.
I have found that when I show people their photos in B and W they are super impressed. That could be due to the novelty of the idea of nostalgia's appeal.
There is also sepia which people seem to like at some times.
Any ideas here?
Color seems to be better for showing the culture of my subject. I do however enjoy shooting both.
I have found that when I show people their photos in B and W they are super impressed. That could be due to the novelty of the idea of nostalgia's appeal.
There is also sepia which people seem to like at some times.
Any ideas here?
Nov 19, 2022 12:14:23 #
Thomas, I am flattered by your words which I do not deserve. Thank you for your kindness and for remembering the portrait of my father and youngest son while the family celebrated Christmas at a local restaurant in Coral Gables, here in Miami some years ago.
My father passed away at the age of 103 and not a single day passes by that I dot not think of him. My son Richard is already 50 years old and at the present time he is a lieutenant of the City of Miami Fire Department.
The room where I was when I made that portrait had poor illumination but I had a white ceiling that I decided to use to bounce the SB-600. ISO speed was set to 800. The combination gave me the results I expected.
I have been photographing most probably for longer than you have been living and experience has brought me some more knowledge. At a time I shot portraits and weddings commercially and in one occasion I shot portraits for the University of Miami. Still I do not consider myself a professional.
I enjoy landscape photography the most but portraits continue to be my passion although it is no longer easy for me to get models, usually non professionals.
Let me repeat that this forum is very lucky having you and Mr. Shapiro as members.
My father passed away at the age of 103 and not a single day passes by that I dot not think of him. My son Richard is already 50 years old and at the present time he is a lieutenant of the City of Miami Fire Department.
The room where I was when I made that portrait had poor illumination but I had a white ceiling that I decided to use to bounce the SB-600. ISO speed was set to 800. The combination gave me the results I expected.
I have been photographing most probably for longer than you have been living and experience has brought me some more knowledge. At a time I shot portraits and weddings commercially and in one occasion I shot portraits for the University of Miami. Still I do not consider myself a professional.
I enjoy landscape photography the most but portraits continue to be my passion although it is no longer easy for me to get models, usually non professionals.
Let me repeat that this forum is very lucky having you and Mr. Shapiro as members.
Nov 19, 2022 12:29:09 #
Remember folks, I am a "hired gun"so I can not always make portraits EXACTLY as per my own interpretation. If I wanna get paid, I am somewhat at the mercy of my clients.
Some years ago, an elderly lady walked into my studio- she asked me to make her portraot. As soon as I saw her my "let's emulate Yosef Karsh complex" kicked in! That FACE had character! Thoughts flashed through my mind- my sharpest lens, orthochromatic film, featured kicker lighting for texture, perhaps an optical spotlight? When I told the lady my plan to create this great "portrait study" she snapped back- I'll paraphrase- "Listen, sonny, I've already been to Mr. Karsh- I DO live here in Ottawa and have lots of money. He made my face look like a relief map of the Himalayas and I do not want to be remembered that way- get out your fuzzy lens and your airbrush"!
Some folks want to be photographed as fashion models and want me to emphasize their style or clothing. Thank goodness, most folks really want to look natural and will level the aesthetics to me, otherwise, by this time I would have been institutionalized
!
The attached shot: The mom came in and said she wanted her "little girl to look pink, soft and kinda fluffy"! What could I say-hmmmmm?. When she grows up she'll have a woman's lib organization picket my studio for stereotyping her? I did as I was told, after all, I'll be long gone by then!
Some years ago, an elderly lady walked into my studio- she asked me to make her portraot. As soon as I saw her my "let's emulate Yosef Karsh complex" kicked in! That FACE had character! Thoughts flashed through my mind- my sharpest lens, orthochromatic film, featured kicker lighting for texture, perhaps an optical spotlight? When I told the lady my plan to create this great "portrait study" she snapped back- I'll paraphrase- "Listen, sonny, I've already been to Mr. Karsh- I DO live here in Ottawa and have lots of money. He made my face look like a relief map of the Himalayas and I do not want to be remembered that way- get out your fuzzy lens and your airbrush"!
Some folks want to be photographed as fashion models and want me to emphasize their style or clothing. Thank goodness, most folks really want to look natural and will level the aesthetics to me, otherwise, by this time I would have been institutionalized
!The attached shot: The mom came in and said she wanted her "little girl to look pink, soft and kinda fluffy"! What could I say-hmmmmm?. When she grows up she'll have a woman's lib organization picket my studio for stereotyping her? I did as I was told, after all, I'll be long gone by then
!
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