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Aug 17, 2022 16:09:06   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
goofybruce wrote:
...Do you start an "artist" off with a full set of oil paints, easels, brushes, canvases....or do you let them begin sketching with pencil and paper. What are you trying to develop, their talent or their equipment???
To me, depends on the age of the "beginner," but a simple camera will actually develop a sense of motion, framing, light, etc. Once that is established, then go for the more advanced equipment which will then enhance the skills.
Besides, all the "bells and whistles" can be intimidating, and going through all the dials, meters, etc. and the shot missed.
Catching a shot of a sunset with a bird flying across the sun with a "brownie" can be inspirational.

Just saying...
...Do you start an "artist" off with a f... (show quote)


A good mirrorless allows for all you say and then without spending anymore the person can go to more advanced levels.
I have always despised people trying to pawn off low level very basic equipment with no growth potential.
Someone truly interested will out grow such a camera in a few weeks.
More capable cameras have the very basic features and also allow for growth.

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Aug 17, 2022 16:38:18   #
Beenthere
 
lmTrying wrote:
I don't care if anyone answers or not. I put this out there just to get anyone who reads it to think about it. One of the most important factors is the age of that person getting started.


The age is not important. Let the older/youngun have some fun no matter whether the gear will outlive that person, our not.

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Aug 17, 2022 17:08:35   #
lmTrying Loc: WV Northern Panhandle
 
goofybruce wrote:
...Do you start an "artist" off with a full set of oil paints, easels, brushes, canvases....or do you let them begin sketching with pencil and paper. What are you trying to develop, their talent or their equipment???
To me, depends on the age of the "beginner," but a simple camera will actually develop a sense of motion, framing, light, etc. Once that is established, then go for the more advanced equipment which will then enhance the skills.
Besides, all the "bells and whistles" can be intimidating, and going through all the dials, meters, etc. and the shot missed.
Catching a shot of a sunset with a bird flying across the sun with a "brownie" can be inspirational.

Just saying...
...Do you start an "artist" off with a f... (show quote)


You sound like a teacher. Well versed in the progression of skills.

Cheap brushes, pencils, oils, paper does not come close to the cost of 3-4 lenses that could soon loose their desirable value. Not a bad prospect for some one financially set. But why burden a youngling with a mirrored system. It would be much better to start with a point n shoot, $400 or less. Guess what, they're all mirrorless. And most owners tend to keep them around till they die.

Or if the newbie of whatever age can afford it, a base mirrorless body and one mid range zoom lens. Turn off all the bells and whistles and do practice shoots in Manual Mode. Then practice in Time Exposure. Then practice in Depth of Field. Then practice in ISO.

You talked around it, but yes, age, and financial position, can have a big difference in where to start a newbie.

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Aug 17, 2022 17:13:57   #
CTTonymm Loc: Connecticut
 
lmTrying wrote:
Ok, have you been reading Cany143? Or do circular slide rules really exist?

Come to think about it, that should make it easy to work beyond the normal 3 digit accuracy of of a standard linear slide rule.


Cany143 ??? Google thinks THAT doesn't exist !

Yup, had a circular slide rule in the late 50's. Can't find it in the basement with my other slide rules now....

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Aug 17, 2022 18:43:38   #
BebuLamar
 
CTTonymm wrote:
How about a circular slide rule ??


Don't have one but have several good straight slide rule. Slide rules are different from abacuses. The abacus only add and subtract and the slide rule can do a lot of things but add or subtract.

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Aug 17, 2022 19:35:11   #
bittermelon
 
lmTrying wrote:
Ok, have you been reading Cany143? Or do circular slide rules really exist?

Come to think about it, that should make it easy to work beyond the normal 3 digit accuracy of of a standard linear slide rule.




They certainly do. A search on eBay will show you.

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Aug 17, 2022 19:36:01   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Don't have one but have several good straight slide rule. Slide rules are different from abacuses. The abacus only add and subtract and the slide rule can do a lot of things but add or subtract.


Actually the slide rule adds and subtracts. It just does it with logarithms.

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Aug 17, 2022 19:40:49   #
jlg1000 Loc: Uruguay / South America
 
bittermelon wrote:
They certainly do. A search on eBay will show you.


Yes, there you have one



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Aug 17, 2022 19:51:38   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
BebuLamar wrote:
People asking me to recommend a camera from time to time but I never have the answer because I never asked anyone which camera should I buy. I may ask, what this feature for. What does it mean by the camera having this? but I never asked which should I buy. Some of the camera I bought and I liked a lot most people thought it was a stupid choice.


I never tell people what to buy. Just tell them what I use and why and let them decide for themselves.

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Aug 17, 2022 20:53:51   #
SteveFranz Loc: Durham, NC
 
Bill_de wrote:
And if you are teaching them to drive be sure to have an old car with a crank start and stick shift?

Don't teach anyone to use a computer until they can use an abicus.

I don't think we have to go back to the past for everything to live in the present, and look to the future.

----


Why not. My daughter learned to drive a stick shift & used a stick shift for her driving test (and passed)

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Aug 17, 2022 20:54:32   #
Sidwalkastronomy Loc: New Jersey Shore
 
lmTrying wrote:
So many posts are about asking for suggestions in purchasing the correct equipment, wether it be a GAS attack, or helping a friend or newbie. And lately these posts are dealing more and more with the question of going DSLR or mirrorless. It seems to me that one important fact that no one throws out there is the age of that person in question (or target). If that person is 80, does it matter? The camera will probably outlast them. If that person is 20 or 30, or even 40 and is just getting started, why would anyone recommend they start with buying a Brownie, Twin Lens Reflex, match needle, Single Lens Reflex, or even a DSLR? If they have the cash, a newbie should be starting with today's technology, a mirrorless camera, so they won't have to go through that complete replacement expense. If they don't have the cash then it's time to start a savings plan or buy something that will physically transfer into the current mirrorless market.

As for me:
The Ansco Regent died, history, a memory. The Canon AE1-P is a perfectly good - - paperweight.
The Canon XSi, while it could be a backup, is pretty much relegated to the same fate.

So, if you are the mentor helping that person trying to get started, why not put one of those oldies of yours , hiding in a closet or drawer, in their hands to try it out for a shoot or two? Teach them the basics. Let them get the feel of something in their hands. Maybe a couple of somethings. Take them to a real brick & mortor (not Walmart or Worst Buy).

I don't care if anyone answers or not. I put this out there just to get anyone who reads it to think about it. One of the most important factors is the age of that person getting started.
So many posts are about asking for suggestions in ... (show quote)


My XSI is still going strong

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Aug 17, 2022 20:58:16   #
SteveFranz Loc: Durham, NC
 
lmTrying wrote:
Read it again. That's not what I said. In fact I ask why anyone would start a young person on old technology. Personally I think every one starting out today should start with a mirrorless. But not everyone can afford it.

I did list the four cameras I have grown up with just for your information.

And I suggested that IF you are mentoring a newbie that you might let them try using some of your old equipment just for the hands on experience so they can make a better informed choice when they buy their own.
Read it again. That's not what I said. In fact I a... (show quote)


When you learn the old technology, you learn the basics. When you move forward to newer technology, understanding the basics helps you make full use of the new technology. For example, you can use the "auto everything" on a mirrorless camera, or you can use "manual." If you don't know the basics of photography, the "manual" option would be pretty mysterious to you.

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Aug 17, 2022 21:01:49   #
Sidwalkastronomy Loc: New Jersey Shore
 
I was photographing the sun setat the inlet and one fisherman wanted to replace his camera that got lifted to college with his daughter so he asked me about a replacement. I strongly suggested any Canon mirrorless and then hes set to add lines as he wants. He had a good budget for this and I did give him the T8i as a lower cost option and explained mirrorless is the way to go for future

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Aug 17, 2022 21:34:08   #
gwilliams6
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Cranky folks here...


Always in UHH, LOL

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Aug 17, 2022 22:02:30   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
lewesner wrote:
Cost and equipment are more reasonable for a DSLR set up then with a mirror less camera. Lot to learn about the basics to justify jumping into the mirror less fray right off the bat. Mirror less is great but it still has its draw backs, just saying.


I love when those with no real clue chime in.

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