Dave H2

10:4 on that comment. I went to public schools at about the same time. My high school provided me with a much better prep than simple BA degrees offer today at most colleges (liberal arts anyhow). In the 70's I was tasked by corporate HQ to interview a Harvard MBA recent grad for a sale engineer position. What an arrogant dumb shit he was.
There was no way I would offer him a job.
D. (ex Naval Aviator)

bob44044 Loc: Ohio

Whose fault these kids couldn't even name the ocean they sawm in? Who taught them?

LDB415 Loc: Houston south suburb

Nobody taught them. They indoctrinate them now. That's the problem.

Dave H2

Not true, ignorance is curable by training or education, but stupidity is not.

fantom Loc: Colorado

Possibly yes in some cases, but not true if the education is what contributes to the stupidity----which is a very common occurrence these days. Pls don't begin a debate about our educational system as it is not relevant to this discussion and I base my comments on what I have personally observed.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Most of the students did fine. It was the % that was majoring in music, sports, the opposite sex, and napping in class that couldn't name the ocean or other basic things a week after the lessons. And if I came down too hard on them then I ended up being lectured by admin for being too strict etc. And by the end of my career (retired in June 2007) the majority of parents supported their little angels, or just didn't give a fig. However, the school I retired from had a lot of immigrant kids and their parents usually backed the teachers. I remember two who became "born again scholars" after spending Winter Break or Easter/Spring Break learning about what kind of work you got with no education. One boy washed pots and pans by hand two shifts a day in his Uncle's restaurant for two weeks and the other boy spent Easter Week shoveling fresh fertilizer on his Grandfather's dairy farm. It is amazing how much better their work and grades were the rest of the year.

And as to the kids who did fine - I have run into a lot of my former students who now have good jobs and a fairly large % of them are in education. Several have told me "You and ...name other teachers... were a big part of why I became a teacher." In fact, when I retired there were about 20 of my former students on the faculty or in support jobs at the school I retired from. (The school had about 4000 students and a huge faculty & support staff.) The Gifted Coordinator and his wife who was also a teacher met in my 8th grade US History class during my 15 years at a Jr high and both of them listed me as one of the reasons they became teachers. He once told me "You were the first history teacher I ever had who seemed to like and enjoyed teaching the subject. You seemed to be having fun."

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Actually, no one can teach anyone anything unless the student cooperates and does their part. We don't unscrew the top of their head and pour in the knowledge. We can present/demonstrate it, explain it, answer questions and attempt to motivate them. But in the end, they have to do the learning.
Under our system in the US, we can't do things that force them to work and learn. The systems where they can be forced, coerced, threatened with going to a "camp" and even beaten may produce an overall higher scoring result but they also produce a lot of fairly well-educated rebels who dream of overthrowing the system and nation. And as to self-motivation, most of that comes from their raising and family. In other nations, it can come from students seeing others or being so poor themselves that they are willing to work like hell to get educated. Here in the US even our "poverty line" is an income level that for a huge part of the world would qualify as middle class. During a field school in Mexico in the early 70s, I met a high school teacher whose family was: the 1st in the neighborhood to have electricity, 1st to have a refrigerator, 1st to buy an almost new family car as opposed to a junker of a pickup truck to rebuild as the family work vehicle. And that man had grandparents who owned a successful book store in Mexico City and he had been a Mexican Army Officer whose unit hunted Axis spies and sympathizers during WWII. But as a teacher in a smaller Mexican city after the war, he lived in an area where his family had those three firsts.

LDB415 Loc: Houston south suburb

I agree. My point was that now a lot of what is offered to them isn't teaching, it's indoctrination. They choose what to do with it but it's what's on offer, not the solid education almost universally offered to my generation and prior.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Yes, a lot of the new teachers starting about 1/2 way through my career were like that - preaching their liberal ideas instead of the subject a lot of the time. And many of them weren't all that good at their subject in the first place.

fantom Loc: Colorado

I agree, but I have witnessed that the indoctrination isn't just offered----it is demanded. The indoctrination is taught as fact and if it is not parroted back to the teacher on tests, homework etc. the student does not get a passing grade.

LDB415 Loc: Houston south suburb

You're correct. I was trying to be nice about it. It's shameful.

Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA

Here in PA near Jim Thorpe, is a beautiful area of waterfalls called Glen Onoko. The stream flows downhill for a quarter mile or so. There are numerous falls, from knee-high to the largest fall of 33 ft. at the very top. The climb is steep, and people have been severely injured and killed along the trail. I always liked hiking the trail a couple of times a year but last year the park service closed it because they said the accidents there put the rescue squads in danger themselves. If they catch someone on the trail today, they charge a 75.00 fine. This is a shame because this is one of the loveliest hikes I can think of. I hope in the future the park service will improve the trail, so it is less dangerous.

LDB415 Loc: Houston south suburb

They are likely California or other west coast morons who regrettably relocated to Texas prior to this stupidity illustrating event.

fantom Loc: Colorado

We know what you mean. Colorado is being flooded, overrun and abused by throngs of Californicators.