jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I've been following the investigation about the collapse, and yesterday, the one-year anniversary, I saw a very good one. It shows that everything about that building was wrong.

Surfside Collapse - The Full Story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNYqV7ySDrY

sb Loc: Florida's East Coast

This guy is a structural engineer, and really good at explaining things. His channel is called "Building Integrity". He has been posting videos about the Surfside collapse for the past year as more information became available. It is pretty fascinating. Not only was the building old and decaying, and undergoing some settling possibly due to nearby construction, and having problems with the roof, but changes made by the tenants may have contributed to the collapse. Things you might not think about. A huge percentage of tenants put tile down on their balconies, which were designed to be sealed concrete (with new sealant applied at regular intervals). The combination of mortar, tile and grout was not only much heavier than the balconies were designed for, this allowed moisture to penetrate and work its way into the concrete, eventually causing decay of the rebar. The sister building is now getting reinforcing beams under the balconies. In addition, many of the condos had been remodeled, and videos from Realtor.com and the famous video by the woman who had been interested in purchasing a condo there (a few months prior to the collapse) show kitchens with huge marble countertops and marble backsplashs, and enlarged bathrooms with marble or stone floors and walls - all of these far heavier than anything conceived of 50 years ago.

There are undoubtedly many buildings with a similar scenario - and especially along the ocean, where the salt air corrodes everything much more quickly. Florida enacted new laws which may help. but this guy pointed out in one of his videos that when an inspector finds problems there will be 12 months to fix them - and he points out that right now the contractors are so busy that his current projects have timelines of 18 months or more. He also points out that this building was inspected, and although they found lots of problems, they overlooked some things that should have been red flags about impending collapse. That is why the engineering firm was part of the $1 billion settlement.

And then there is the realization that these buildings are OLD - in Florida a 50-year old building is OLD. So what will happen when a condo with 100 tenants needs $30 million worth of structural repairs? Each tenant will get an assessment of $300,000. Some might be able to refinance and pay, others will try to sell at a huge loss. Who would buy into such a building? The condo association in all likelihood will go bankrupt and the condominium will close down and be razed. It is going to be an interesting time for those who live in older condos in Florida!

lesdmd Loc: Middleton Wi via N.Y.C. & Cleveland

Where are the criminal charges? Maybe fear of time in prison would motivate more ethical and competent behavior. Pay-out$ can largely be shrugged off or passed on to stock holders.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

What?! This is America!

I watch investigations of plane crashes and other disasters. When anyone, from the CEO to the maintenance guy, knowingly does something wrong or illegal, there may be financial penalties (probably not), but there is no prosecution or jail time. A government agency investigates and makes "recommendations." If I get drunk and drive my car into a crowded store, will the government recommend that I don't drink and drive?

Even when there is prosecution, and this is more common in other countries, there are three possible outcomes: acquittal, a sentence that is suspended, a guilty verdict that is overturned. It's quite a system we have.

Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=csb+safety+video

Companies do whatever they want, people are killed, and the reaction is, "Oh, well. Let's make some recommendations."

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Yes! about the changes made by the tenants. Videos showed very heavy tiles on the balconies and acres of marble in kitchens and bathrooms. When the tenants were told the building needed work done, they said the cost was too high. It looks like they made the right decision in avoiding the costly repairs because they got a $1.02 billion settlement, and that's just so far.

I thought this video was done by another guy who has been following the story. I'll see if I can find him. Jeff Ostrow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-hVwoztaLo&t=179s

This guy is also very good - nice engineering videos - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgz5Xq4GUio&t=8s

Bubbee Loc: Aventura, Florida

As a Realtor, working just around the corner, I sold many apartments there, many pre-construction, and the collapse broke my heart. I believe that the main reason was maintenance neglect, and yesterday I learned that that was actually the main reason, and that now our condo rules are being changed to make maintenance reserves and assessments mandatory. Unfortunately, the Owners in Champlain South did not understand how important their assessments were, and chose not to pay. Also, City building Inspectors were negligent and did not enforce their guidelines. Miami-Dade is currently revising our Building codes to be more strict and efficient.I hope and pray it never happens anywhere ever again!

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I'm afraid that hoping and praying are all you can count on.

lesdmd Loc: Middleton Wi via N.Y.C. & Cleveland

Yes. In America we offer condolences, regrets, and promises of improvement and then largely put the issues behind us.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Ye$, we do.

flip1948 Loc: Hamden, CT

I did structural drawings for over 40 years.

That tile applied to the balconies would have to be extremely heavy to exceed design parameters. Balconies are designed to carry a live load of 100 pounds per square foot.

That is in addition to the dead load...or the weight of the balconies themselves.

JADAV

The company I worked for received a letter from a resident who had purchased a house designed in timberframe by us. He wanted toknow if the bedroom floor joists could support a waterbed that he was interested in buying. It was the only enquiry that we received from a member of the public asking a very sensible question of loading capability in the 12 years I was there. The CEO was very impressed with the intelligence of the resident but a bit taken aback when I suggested that there must be far more people just installing stuff without a second thought. Those residents fitting marble worktops and bathroom panels didn't seem to think that all that fancy stuff was too expensive did they? They were busily "papering over the cracks" rather than dealing with priorities. Here in the UK we have the same mentality in our neighbours that are happily renovating the interiors of cottages over 150 years old but ignoring the roofs that are close to collapse. I think that they should take some responsibility for their poor decisions rather than be compensated by funds and insurances paid for by the rest of us who are more careful.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

sb Loc: Florida's East Coast

I have been following both of them. Both have been focusing on the condo collapse - before that they had great videos on why a certain bridge collapsed, what leads to rebar failure, etc.

sb Loc: Florida's East Coast

It will probably take a few more condo collapses before people start thinking that maybe theirs could be next....

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Maintenance costs money. "In ten years, I'll be retired. Let my replacement deal with the cost of repairs."

This country has 46,154 bridges that are "structurally deficient." The one that recently collapsed in PA was known to be in very bad condition, but no one wanted to repair it.