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Radioactive Water
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May 12, 2022 14:11:20   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
Effate wrote:
Not for dumping it in the ocean but the micro plastics you are eating and drinking dwarf that problem. I have seen beaches in Kauai (I assume due to the high concentration of plastic in the sand they are situated favorably for the trades to blow it in) that have highly visible plastic pieces throughout the beach. This is obviously a worldwide issue.


My daughter's first job as a newly graduated chemical engineer was working for the Savannah River Nuclear Plant (they didn't generate power). Her job was to concentrate radioactivity in water. Her section of the plant received water with low levels of radioactivity from other areas of the plant and concentrated the radioactivity in a series of stages before finally shipping it off to Hanford Washington for final disposal. This is how our government dealt with radioactive water. The Savannah River plant is no longer functional and are in the final stages of clean up themselves before final shutdown.

Dilutions is the solution to pollution does not apply here even though everything is radioactive to some extent due to radiation from uranium and other elements in earth's core.

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May 12, 2022 15:18:28   #
Greg from Romeoville illinois Loc: Romeoville illinois
 
jerryc41 wrote:
A tank in Plymouth, on Cape Cod, is holding about a million gallons of radioactive water from the decommissioned nuclear plant. The company tasked with the cleanup is considering dumping it into the ocean. For some reason, residents don't like this idea, even though it's the cheapest option for the company. They say that even if the radioactivity does no harm, just the thought of a radioactive ocean will hurt the tourism and fishing industries. It's too bad there isn't a good use for all that radioactive water.

The company is also considering evaporation, but wouldn't that leave concentrated radioactivity, like salt left over after sea water evaporates? "Tis a puzzlement."
A tank in Plymouth, on Cape Cod, is holding about ... (show quote)


All they need to do is get the Chernobyl Fungus that eats radioactivity.

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May 12, 2022 16:35:51   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
Greg from Romeoville illinois wrote:
All they need to do is get the Chernobyl Fungus that eats radioactivity.


There are a lot of reports of the short and long term effects of the Chernobyl disaster on people. Estimates of the death toll after 20 yrs approaches 3000 but there is much disagreement as to the accuracy of that number. Many precautions are taken to exclude people from the area for obvious health reasons.

What I've not seen are any reports of the effects on the local wildlife population. There's no way to limit their access to the site so their exposure must be many times greater than humans. The animals might be a perfect laboratory experiment to study the effects of radiation. Anybody heard anything about this?

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May 13, 2022 04:00:18   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
There are a lot of reports of the short and long term effects of the Chernobyl disaster on people. Estimates of the death toll after 20 yrs approaches 3000 but there is much disagreement as to the accuracy of that number. Many precautions are taken to exclude people from the area for obvious health reasons.

What I've not seen are any reports of the effects on the local wildlife population. There's no way to limit their access to the site so their exposure must be many times greater than humans. The animals might be a perfect laboratory experiment to study the effects of radiation. Anybody heard anything about this?
There are a lot of reports of the short and long t... (show quote)


There have been long-term studies of the flora and fauna in Fukushima. There are effects noted in the animals of the region and the plants, and not good ones.

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May 13, 2022 09:14:47   #
petrochemist Loc: UK
 
I very much doubt tritium will be a significant factor here (yes there will be traces present).
From a nuclear plant you will get daughter nucleotides from the Uranium decay series, which ends in Lead.

With the exception of Radon all of these are solids which will remain on evaporation, allowing the concentrated residue to be disposed of as normal active waste (Probably buried down a disused mine in sealed containers).

In reality the best disposal route depends on how radioactive the water is. All of us are radioactive to some degree, if it's only a thousand times more radioactive than us dumping at sea could be acceptable (that depends on the chemical hazards) but in general dilution is not considered an appropriate way for disposing of hazardous waste.

With only a million gallons to dispose of dilution in the worlds oceans would give a very considerable reduction in concentrations. The eventual concentration of radioactive materials from this would probably be pretty insignificant, I'd expect lower than the naturally occurring concentrations from underwater volcanic vents etc.

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May 13, 2022 11:32:29   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Effate wrote:
Not for dumping it in the ocean but the micro plastics you are eating and drinking dwarf that problem. I have seen beaches in Kauai (I assume due to the high concentration of plastic in the sand they are situated favorably for the trades to blow it in) that have highly visible plastic pieces throughout the beach. This is obviously a worldwide issue.


Correct. We all have microplastics in our bodies, and it's unlikely that they do us any good. I could be interesting to examine human remains in the future - just bones and plastic.

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May 14, 2022 08:08:43   #
Stephan G
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Correct. We all have microplastics in our bodies, and it's unlikely that they do us any good. I could be interesting to examine human remains in the future - just bones and plastic.


Sidenote: "This month, the latest edition of the Body World Exhibition opened its doors in Heidelberg. "The Mirror of Time" collection builds off "Plastination," the original show founded by Gunther von Hagen back in 1977."

(Been to three shows from Body World over the years. Fascinating.)

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May 14, 2022 08:35:29   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
petrochemist wrote:
I very much doubt tritium will be a significant factor here (yes there will be traces present).
From a nuclear plant you will get daughter nucleotides from the Uranium decay series, which ends in Lead.

With the exception of Radon all of these are solids which will remain on evaporation, allowing the concentrated residue to be disposed of as normal active waste (Probably buried down a disused mine in sealed containers).

In reality the best disposal route depends on how radioactive the water is. All of us are radioactive to some degree, if it's only a thousand times more radioactive than us dumping at sea could be acceptable (that depends on the chemical hazards) but in general dilution is not considered an appropriate way for disposing of hazardous waste.

With only a million gallons to dispose of dilution in the worlds oceans would give a very considerable reduction in concentrations. The eventual concentration of radioactive materials from this would probably be pretty insignificant, I'd expect lower than the naturally occurring concentrations from underwater volcanic vents etc.
I very much doubt tritium will be a significant fa... (show quote)


AFAIK all other radionuclides produced by nuke plants are filterable to acceptable levels, except tritium. All nuclear plants release tritium, and the nuclear regulatory bodies have set acceptable levels. In this case dilution is the only answer. International standards for tritium in drinking water vary from 100 Bq/l in the EU to 30,000 Bq/l in Finland.

Here is a list of liquid effluent discharges from plants. Airborne releases are generally more significant

Mixed Fission and Activation Products
Iron (55)
Cobalt (58, 60)
Cesium (134, 137)
Chromium (51)
Manganese (54)
Zirconium (95)
Niobium (95)
Iodine (131, 133, 135)
Tritium Hydrogen (3)

Dissolved and Entrained Noble Gases
Krypton (85, 85m, 87, 88)
Xenon (131, 133, 133m, 135, 135m

It's clear that if there are structural problems with the plant (leaks, etc.) it is possible that many more radionuclides might get into the water. Judging from the situation in Fukushima, it is possible to filter highly contaminated water to acceptable levels. So the question remains: what is in that water being stored? It must be something above levels deemed safe for release.

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