Enough is enough: I am so fed up with the way the US and NATO have chosen to stand back and let Putin invade and pillage Ukraine. The moment he attacked, after so many weeks of saying...

waldron7 Loc: State of Confusion

I am so fed up with the way the US and NATO have chosen to stand back and let Putin invade and pillage Ukraine. The moment he attacked, after so many weeks of saying he would not attack, Western forces should have been deployed to defend Ukraine. When oil was an issue in Kuwait, a coalition was formed to attack Iraqi forces. Now that state sovereignty is at stake, we stand back and send some supplies, but fear facing up to Putin and his armed forces. When the bulky punches you, you have to punch back even harder or face the consequences. Sanctions may work over time, but the immediate need is an overwhelming military response.

ad9mac

A direct confrontation of West/US forces could only lead to a nuclear war.
Your Oakley sunglasses may be good for 'thermonuclear protection' for your eyes but nothing else.
You wanna take that chance? I don't.

ELNikkor

It's a lot more complicated than that. John Mearsheimer predicted this exact scenario back in 2015, (minute 44 in a speech you can find on Youtube, 'John Mearsheimer talks about Ukraine and Nato'). I had been figuring the same thing before ever hearing about Mearsheimer, but he is a lot more scholarly than me. Just looking at who Putin is and his background, and Zelensky and the fact he became President less than 3 years ago, mostly because he was a comedian who made a TV show in which, he played (you guessed it!) a President of Ukraine, told me that we might not be seeing the whole picture in vilifying Putin, though certainly he is worthy of vilification, at this point! I h**e this war as much as anyone, but we and NATO are wise to stay out of it as much out of it as possible.

DIRTY HARRY Loc: Hartland, Michigan

Soooo, just when do we stand up to Putin, when Sara sees them landing on the beach. I doubt Putin wants to take on ALL of NATO. His forces aren't doing all that well agains Ukraine

waldron7 Loc: State of Confusion

There are those who would believe that Putin would go nuclear. He is fully aware that the use of nukes would cascade into the scenario of "mutually assured destruction". As irrational as he has been, I do not believe he would go down that road.
Letting Ukraine just hang in the wind after they plead for help is unconscionable. This is not the time to invoke the "Prime Directive".

waldron7 Loc: State of Confusion

DIRTY HARRY wrote:

Soooo, just when do we stand up to Putin, when Sara sees them landing on the beach. I doubt Putin wants to take on ALL of NATO. His forces aren't doing all that well agains Ukraine

I'm not a hawk, but I totally agree with Dirty Harry.

Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

waldron7 wrote:

I am so fed up with the way the US and NATO have c... (show quote)

The situation is too volatile. Putin is not predictable, and has proven himself to be a ruthless k**ler. What you suggest would be potentially catastrophic for literally millions of innocent people.

waldron7 Loc: State of Confusion

While the entire world watched as Putin aggressively brought more and more troops, jets, and equipment to the border, NATO should have amassed comparable forces on the Ukrainian border under the guise of military exercises with the Ukrainian army. I'm sure President Zelensky would have been most agreeable. Believing what the Russians said about not invading was utter stupidity.

ad9mac

waldron7 wrote:

While the entire world watched as Putin aggressively brought more and more troops, jets, and equipment to the border, NATO should have amassed comparable forces on the Ukrainian border under the guise of military exercises with the Ukrainian army. I'm sure President Zelensky would have been most agreeable. Believing what the Russians said about not invading was utter stupidity.

that's exactly what Putin warned about, Having NATO troops on his border.
How would we handle Russia putting troops on the Mexica border?

ad9mac

We kept dangling Ukraine membership to NATO over them.
Putin finally had enough and kept his promise.

Putin has 4 demands
Guarantee, in writing and law that Ukraine will never join NATO
That Ukraine become neutral.
The Eastern provinces, Donbass and others become independent.
Crimea, that they've occupied since 2014, be given to Russia.

If Zelensky doesn't agree to those terms Ukraine will be reduced to smoldering ruins. Or worse.

Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

ad9mac wrote:

that's exactly what Putin warned about, Having NATO troops on his border.
How would we handle Russia putting troops on the Mexica border?

So, you agree with Putin that he has every right to attack the Ukraine, bomb hospitals and force millions out of their country?

ad9mac

Kmgw9v wrote:

So, you agree with Putin that he has every right to attack the Ukraine, bomb hospitals and force millions out of their country?

I DO NOT support Putin in any way. IMO he is unstable and not to be goaded.
Just relaying his justification.

I think he will do wh**ever he needs to do the take Ukraine.
Negotiation is Ukraine's only hope of surviving as an inhabitable country.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

waldron7 wrote:

There are those who would believe that Putin would go nuclear. He is fully aware that the use of nukes would cascade into the scenario of "mutually assured destruction". As irrational as he has been, I do not believe he would go down that road.
Letting Ukraine just hang in the wind after they plead for help is unconscionable. This is not the time to invoke the "Prime Directive".

Totally agree with you, the others claiming "nuclear war" are just fear mongers repeating the same BS from talking heads. Putin would not utilize nuclear weapons when he knows darn well we have them at our disposal as well.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

Kmgw9v wrote:

The situation is too volatile. Putin is not predictable, and has proven himself to be a ruthless k**ler. What you suggest would be potentially catastrophic for literally millions of innocent people.

You are an irrational personality, always fear mongering your nonsense.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

Kmgw9v wrote:

So, you agree with Putin that he has every right to attack the Ukraine, bomb hospitals and force millions out of their country?

Why don't you answer his question?