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Sigma 18-35 f1.8
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Dec 10, 2021 12:29:34   #
Amadeus Loc: New York
 
Thomas902 wrote:
"...I do want to use it in low light conditions. Gymnastics, dance recitals etc..." Amadeus there are precious few genres where equipment trumps even skill and expertise... Sadly indoor sports; gymnastics, dance etc is one of those very rare scenarios. The barrier to entry in professional caliber indoor sports photography often can be very deep pockets. If you want to shoot commercially in that genre it may take years to recover your initial investment, if at all.

I'm only the messenger here Amadeus; that said I shoot League Soccer commercially and when clients ask if I would accept indoor sports assignments I politely decline... virtually a bottomless pit of low paying gigs and gaining credentials to shoot at major college events (let alone major league events) is nearly impossible (the line goes around the block).

My best suggestion for you is to invest quality time in the UHH Sport's Photography Forum.
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/s-103-1.html

Now that I better understand your initial query on the Sigma 18-35 f1.8 optic I realize your actual requirement i.e. "need" is greater then a single piece of kit. Please do yourself a favor and hang around in the UHH Short's Photography Forum for several months and then possibly reevaluate your situation. While there are many genres... you kind sir are looking to pursue one of the most complex and demanding of all. Not only do you have to have a high degree of knowledge and savvy in Dance and Gymnastics but also the highly sophisticated kit to achieve excellence.

Keep in mind that photographic excellence is not a consumer commodity but rather a result of long and arduous dedication to a craft.

Please realize that I'm not trying to discourage your choice of genre but rather attempting to steer you in the right direction.

Wishing you all the best on your photographic journey Amadeus
"...I do want to use it in low light conditio... (show quote)


I took a look at the sports forum. Not a lot of technical info there. But I signed into that forum to see what comes up. I didn’t mean to mislead but I’m not looking to enter the professional world of sports photography. I have grandchildren that play hockey, dance, and do competitive gymnastics. Just looking for a reasonably priced lens that will give me better results than my 18-135 Canon and a 50mm 1.4 canon prime lens. I do have an 85mm 1.8 canon which actually gives really nice pics.

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Dec 10, 2021 15:04:15   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
irishrover61 wrote:
I have this lens on use it on a Canon m50 Mark II with a EF to EOS M adapter and it is stellar. Not only from a focusing standpoint but optically as well.


Exceptional and eye-catching 💎💎💎💎💎

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Dec 10, 2021 16:37:38   #
User ID
 
Amadeus wrote:
I appreciate all the input. My camera is a Canon 80D and just wondered if it was a widespread problem with the lens. I was attracted to it because of the wide aperture. I would be using it indoors, poor lighting and no flash. So I shied away from the canon 17-40. It seems like the only drawback to the lens is it’s massive weight.

The 17-40 is pretty heavy itself. But that is a FF lens. I personally would never put something heavier than that on a crop format body.

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Dec 10, 2021 18:18:19   #
Amadeus Loc: New York
 
User ID wrote:
The 17-40 is pretty heavy itself. But that is a FF lens. I personally would never put something heavier than that on a crop format body.

I don’t believe that is correct. Everything I’ve read indicates it is specifically designed for crop sensor cameras.

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Dec 10, 2021 23:03:27   #
User ID
 
Amadeus wrote:
I don’t believe that is correct. Everything I’ve read indicates it is specifically designed for crop sensor cameras.

You “believe “.
You’ve “read”.
But we’re NOT seeing “I use”.

Why did you even post ?!?!?
Typical UHH.
.

“Just a little off the top, please.”
“Just a little off the top, please.”...
(Download)

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Dec 10, 2021 23:25:34   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Amadeus wrote:
I don’t believe that is correct. Everything I’ve read indicates it is specifically designed for crop sensor cameras.


You're certainly causing a bit of confusion in this response.

The Canon EF 17-40 f/4L is a full frame lens. Not as fast aperture as the Sigma option, but rather similar in effective focal length.

The "Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art" being discussed is yes, an APS-C lens, that is one that throws a smaller image circle that covers just the cropped-size sensor. The third-party lenses do not use Canon's EF-S mount. Rather, this Sigma lens mounts as an EF lens, the red-dot alignment mark on the camera body. The 'DC' designation from Sigma indicates an APS-C style lens, it will vignette of mounted to a full-frame camera.

For your lens choices, note the 18-35 is roughly just 24mm to 50mm for a full-frame zoom. This is a nice view for sports / action, if you can get close very close to the action, such as under the basket in basketball. You can look at your current results from your 18-135, how often are you shooting at the wider 18-35mm end of this zoom? The Sigma lens is unique in the max aperture for this zoom range, but is that wide focal length really what you need? For the sports you listed, I would think as a spectator photographer, the 50 and 85 are the better choices. The wider focal lengths can give a perspective from 'being in the action', like there under the basket or on the bench or in the huddle. But, the photographer needs to be 'in' these positions to make use of these focal lengths and to capture these perspectives.

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Dec 11, 2021 00:05:15   #
Amadeus Loc: New York
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
You're certainly causing a bit of confusion in this response.

The Canon EF 17-40 f/4L is a full frame lens. Not as fast aperture as the Sigma option, but rather similar in effective focal length.

The "Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art" being discussed is yes, an APS-C lens, that is one that throws a smaller image circle that covers just the cropped-size sensor. The third-party lenses do not use Canon's EF-S mount. Rather, this Sigma lens mounts as an EF lens, the red-dot alignment mark on the camera body. The 'DC' designation from Sigma indicates an APS-C style lens, it will vignette of mounted to a full-frame camera.

For your lens choices, note the 18-35 is roughly just 24mm to 50mm for a full-frame zoom. This is a nice view for sports / action, if you can get close very close to the action, such as under the basket in basketball. You can look at your current results from your 18-135, how often are you shooting at the wider 18-35mm end of this zoom? The Sigma lens is unique in the max aperture for this zoom range, but is that wide focal length really what you need? For the sports you listed, I would think as a spectator photographer, the 50 and 85 are the better choices. The wider focal lengths can give a perspective from 'being in the action', like there under the basket or on the bench or in the huddle. But, the photographer needs to be 'in' these positions to make use of these focal lengths and to capture these perspectives.
You're certainly causing a bit of confusion in thi... (show quote)

Thank you for the insight Paul as usual. I shot a dance convention and close enough to be able to use the 50mm. I just wasn’t pleased with results. Everything was soft, nothing sharp. Aperture was always around 1.4. I was going for as high a shutter speed I could get. So I started thinking about a different lens.

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Dec 11, 2021 00:50:30   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
"... I do have an 85mm 1.8 canon which actually gives really nice pics..." Amadeus 85mm on your APS-C body has an angle of view of ~ 136mm... I totally love that perspective for Beauty Genre, albeit it's a tad tight for full length fashion and/or event photography. Same with your 50mm which again is great for full length fashion and works well for event reportage on your APS-C body yielding an 80 to 85mm angle of view.

However your 18-135 at the wide end is ~ a 28mm angle of view... which can present some unique composition challenges when used for full length fashion... it is seldom ever used for commercial beauty genre.

Below are two images (an agency model showcasing a designer's textile artistry)... the first with a 24mm prime and the second with a 85mm prime... Both on a full frame body.

Have you considered simply working with your two primes?
Again all the best on your photographic journey.

24mm prime on FF
24mm prime on FF...
(Download)

85mm prime on FF
85mm prime on FF...
(Download)

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Dec 11, 2021 00:57:12   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
"... Aperture was always around 1.4..." Have you considered shooting that 50mm 1.4 at f/2 Amadeus?
My 50mm 1.4 Nikkor prime it doesn't have exceptional acuity until stopped down to at least f/2.

DxOmark tests optics... I have found their data to be of value especially for which apertures yield outstanding acuity.

Again just a thought...

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Dec 11, 2021 06:05:46   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Amadeus wrote:
Thank you for the insight Paul as usual. I shot a dance convention and close enough to be able to use the 50mm. I just wasn’t pleased with results. Everything was soft, nothing sharp. Aperture was always around 1.4. I was going for as high a shutter speed I could get. So I started thinking about a different lens.


Rather than looking for a new lens to replace an already excellent Canon lens, we should look at the actual images and determine what happened in this images. The f/1.4 aperture is a rather narrow depth of field. Where the AF fell, the details should be rather sharp, quickly falling away into a blur outside that depth of field. This applies for a close subject, where at a distance, the DOF increases.

Example, your 50mm on an EOS 80D for a subject distance of 8-feet is just 0.4-feet (let's call it 5-inches). If we increase the subject distance to 20-feet, the DOF increases to 2.6-feet (let's call it 30-inches). We'd also have to look at the shutterspeed, the AF location and the AF mode, to see if we could detect issues causing "everything was soft, nothing sharp".

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Dec 11, 2021 10:31:58   #
boby
 
I photograph lots of HS indoor sports such as Gymnastics and Volleyball and I find that my most important lens by far is a 70 to 200 F2.8

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Dec 11, 2021 12:14:03   #
Amadeus Loc: New York
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Rather than looking for a new lens to replace an already excellent Canon lens, we should look at the actual images and determine what happened in this images. The f/1.4 aperture is a rather narrow depth of field. Where the AF fell, the details should be rather sharp, quickly falling away into a blur outside that depth of field. This applies for a close subject, where at a distance, the DOF increases.

Example, your 50mm on an EOS 80D for a subject distance of 8-feet is just 0.4-feet (let's call it 5-inches). If we increase the subject distance to 20-feet, the DOF increases to 2.6-feet (let's call it 30-inches). We'd also have to look at the shutterspeed, the AF location and the AF mode, to see if we could detect issues causing "everything was soft, nothing sharp".
Rather than looking for a new lens to replace an a... (show quote)

I attached 2 pictures here. I shoot in Raw + jpg. These are the jpgs right out of the camera. I only applied Topaz DeNoise to them. If you want them without any correction I'll resend.


(Download)


(Download)

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Dec 11, 2021 12:35:41   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Amadeus wrote:
I attached 2 pictures here. I shoot in Raw + jpg. These are the jpgs right out of the camera. I only applied Topaz DeNoise to them. If you want them without any correction I'll resend.


The denoise versions have all the EXIF stripped. We need the JPEG from the camera with no other software. Or, the RAW converted to JPEG only via Canon DPP. Thx.

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Dec 11, 2021 12:54:59   #
Amadeus Loc: New York
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
The denoise versions have all the EXIF stripped. We need the JPEG from the camera with no other software. Or, the RAW converted to JPEG only via Canon DPP. Thx.

OK. Sorry, wasn't aware of that.


(Download)


(Download)

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Dec 11, 2021 14:08:00   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
Amadeus wrote:
OK. Sorry, wasn't aware of that.


So lovely 🖤🏆🖤

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