Recovering from a total failure. . . .
Dec 9, 2021 09:07:05 #
Stephan G wrote:
Especially when you want a pretty cow for the shots. 
And you know how cows can be.
[editor's note: Apologies to any cow that might take offense.]
And you know how cows can be.
[editor's note: Apologies to any cow that might take offense.]
Dec 9, 2021 09:11:06 #
manofhg wrote:
I think you have done well considering what you ha... (show quote)
Thank you for the encouraging words. I have often said that those who plan and build venues should ask photographers BEFORE they build!
Dec 9, 2021 10:54:57 #
Your situation has compromise written all over it. So what can you compromise? The shutter speed is at its lower limit already. There's a bit of motion blur in the horses' feet, which is OK if it never gets worse than what you've posted, but I've a funny feeling that when the horses are running at full tilt it's more than just the feet that gets motion blur.
That leaves aperture as the only other way to capture more light. F/5.6 gives too shallow a DOF but you don't have to go all the way up to f/11. F/8 or maybe f/7.1 would probably work except for the fully zoomed in shots, and that's giving 1-1.5 stops more light.
With that extra stop or so you could up the shutter speed to 1/150 sec (losing half a stop), plus you could use continuous shutter release, which increases your chances of catching the movement at its slowest (less motion blur).
In more general terms you should just accept blowing the highlights and not bother trying to save them. And you should try to find angles that minimise the amount of background sky in the shot. Since you're not worried about overexposure you could shoot in fully manual mode, which means the camera's meter won't try to lower the exposure when there are lots of bright highlights in the shot. It looks like you could just select a shutter speed of 1/150 sec and an aperture of f/8 or f/7.1 (the latter if you can get away with it) and whatever ISO gives a roughly neutral exposure (raising the ISO won't increase the amount of captured light).
If the DOF is tight at those apertures, you may have to just accept subject-oriented shots rather than subject plus sharp context. But you would still have to avoid using too much zoom, since that would make the DOF even shallower. If there's more than a single subject you could wait until all of the action is at or close to the plane of focus, which would be the case if the rider and the cow/s were close to each other. That's a bit limiting but there'll have to be compromise somewhere if you want to optimise your results.
Quick summary - don't worry about overexposure and forget about getting lots of sharp context. Use as wide an aperture as you can and shoot as wide angle as you can. Use continuous shutter release and choose the least blurry action shots. Then get very, very good at treating noise in PP .
That leaves aperture as the only other way to capture more light. F/5.6 gives too shallow a DOF but you don't have to go all the way up to f/11. F/8 or maybe f/7.1 would probably work except for the fully zoomed in shots, and that's giving 1-1.5 stops more light.
With that extra stop or so you could up the shutter speed to 1/150 sec (losing half a stop), plus you could use continuous shutter release, which increases your chances of catching the movement at its slowest (less motion blur).
In more general terms you should just accept blowing the highlights and not bother trying to save them. And you should try to find angles that minimise the amount of background sky in the shot. Since you're not worried about overexposure you could shoot in fully manual mode, which means the camera's meter won't try to lower the exposure when there are lots of bright highlights in the shot. It looks like you could just select a shutter speed of 1/150 sec and an aperture of f/8 or f/7.1 (the latter if you can get away with it) and whatever ISO gives a roughly neutral exposure (raising the ISO won't increase the amount of captured light).
If the DOF is tight at those apertures, you may have to just accept subject-oriented shots rather than subject plus sharp context. But you would still have to avoid using too much zoom, since that would make the DOF even shallower. If there's more than a single subject you could wait until all of the action is at or close to the plane of focus, which would be the case if the rider and the cow/s were close to each other. That's a bit limiting but there'll have to be compromise somewhere if you want to optimise your results.
Quick summary - don't worry about overexposure and forget about getting lots of sharp context. Use as wide an aperture as you can and shoot as wide angle as you can. Use continuous shutter release and choose the least blurry action shots. Then get very, very good at treating noise in PP
.Dec 9, 2021 16:57:08 #
R.G. wrote:
Your situation has compromise written all over it.... (show quote)
The shutter speed of 100 was chosen by the camera when I put it on program. I honestly didn't know what shutter speed it was choosing, and was amazed that I got anything! As I said, I originated with a shutter speed of 1000, which was what I used to use when shooting film. Those images were horrid and no amount of PP would fix them. The problem was the strong light above the very dark arena, and I knew it. I tried every vantage point that would minimize that, but they were bad vantage points for the action. The ones I tried at high shutter speed and medium f-stop were really grainy, as I said. The only way I know of reducing grain is in the sharpness module of LR. Actually, my Sharpen program does some de-noise, so I should have tried that, I guess. The ones where I ignored the highlights came out really weird. They were way too contrasty, and when I tried to flatten that, they turned a really insipid blob of nothing. I didn't know if that was a fault of the "iffy" camera, or of the ignorance of the person doing the PP work.
I've shot in indoor arenas before with moderate success. However, they had solid walls, so the lighting was very even. Nearly all of the equine activity in this area is now done in this facility, so if I'm going to continue to try to shoot them, I've got to figure this out!
Thanks so very much, RG, for your in-depth assessment. I've printed this out to study it and the next time I go I'll burn a few hundred frames trying out all of your suggestions.
Dec 10, 2021 01:42:50 #
The only other thing I can suggest (apart from using a better camera) is to work out where the natural light is strongest and photograph whatever side is being lit by it. That way the natural light will work for you rather than against you. I think you must enjoy a good challenge . Good luck for your future efforts.
. Good luck for your future efforts.Dec 10, 2021 08:25:36 #
R.G. wrote:
The only other thing I can suggest (apart from using a better camera) is to work out where the natural light is strongest and photograph whatever side is being lit by it. That way the natural light will work for you rather than against you. I think you must enjoy a good challenge . Good luck for your future efforts.
. Good luck for your future efforts.I'm trying to figure out how to do that.
Dec 11, 2021 06:44:41 #
AzPicLady wrote:
I went to a horse show and photographed mostly the... (show quote)
The exposure issues have been dealt with extensively, so I don't think I have anything to add to that. I think these photos are more instructional than artistic. You mentioned foot movement and angles that demonstrate what rider and cows are doing. In that respect, I think these are good. Some photos are close in to the rider and horse and show what the rider is doing. Others are more wide angle and show the horse and rider interacting with the cows. I don't know anything about horsemanship; but I would think that these photos in a pamphlet or book with written instructions would be pretty darn good.
Erich
Dec 11, 2021 07:06:33 #
ebrunner wrote:
The exposure issues have been dealt with extensive... (show quote)
You are so correct that these aren't intended to be artistic, but totally representational. Thanks for your encouraging comments.
Dec 29, 2021 20:56:11 #
Next time try center weighted metering, OR, increase exposure 1-3 stops. This will blow out the background but give the subject better exposure. OR, switch to totally manual mode. Start with the shutter at 500 and apt at 5.6 and adjust from there. The images you posted are real close, you just need to take control of the camera, if it will let you.
Dec 29, 2021 22:35:03 #
ImageCreator wrote:
Next time try center weighted metering, OR, increase exposure 1-3 stops. This will blow out the background but give the subject better exposure. OR, switch to totally manual mode. Start with the shutter at 500 and apt at 5.6 and adjust from there. The images you posted are real close, you just need to take control of the camera, if it will let you.
Actually, that is close to where I started. The shutter speed was higher. They were awful. Which is why I went to other settings. I'm far too slow to do manual settings, as I simply can't make the necessary changes fast enough. Thank you for your suggestions and for looking at the images with an eye to improvement.
Dec 30, 2021 17:17:31 #
AzPicLady wrote:
Actually, that is close to where I started. The shutter speed was higher. They were awful. Which is why I went to other settings. I'm far too slow to do manual settings, as I simply can't make the necessary changes fast enough. Thank you for your suggestions and for looking at the images with an eye to improvement.
If you set your ISO to Auto then it will let you make whatever settings you like. You could easily set the camera at 500 and f/8 using auto ISO. Experiment with it.
Dec 30, 2021 19:32:37 #
ImageCreator wrote:
If you set your ISO to Auto then it will let you make whatever settings you like. You could easily set the camera at 500 and f/8 using auto ISO. Experiment with it.
Will do. Thx.
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