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new 200- 500 nikon lens
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Dec 5, 2021 20:59:01   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
TriX wrote:
Just to clarify, correct AF has everything to do with sharpness - an out of focus image cannot be sharp. As you say, it affects focus accuracy. If one decides to do this adjustment, the main issue as I see it is a subjective judgement as to what’s in focus - I’ve tried the angled scales, and that’s the issue - trying to judge exactly which number is in the best focus. If you want an actual objective, repeatable measurement, the FoCal system by Riekan is the answer. Not only do you get an accurate AF calibration, you can also get a curve of acuity vs aperture (which I find invaluable for telling where your lens is sharpest, how much degradation from diffraction at smaller aperture and an instant measurement as to whether the new lens you just bought is up to snuff) and a graph of AF repeatability. It’s the best $90 (for the professional version) I’ve spent since I bought my first Nikormat for $125 in 1968. Of course if you’re using a MILC, then AF accuracy and MFA is no longer an issue.
Just to clarify, correct AF has everything to do w... (show quote)


I use focal to do an actual adjustment and am actually a beta tester for their new remote system. Either a lens is sharp or it is not. If you focus on say 6 on a ruler and 8 is sharp the lens is sharp. It just doesn't have sharpness where you think it does. Hence the adjustment. If you have noticed no matter how meticulous you are with focal or any other method you will not get the same adjustment Everytime. So I do 10 test and take the average at whatever focal length I chose to use. The advantage of a dock are you can do adjustment for several focal lengths as opposed to the camera you get 1 adjustment per lens. Although you can add a teleconverter with a lens and get a separate adjustment for that combo.

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Dec 5, 2021 21:05:20   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
Gene51 wrote:
This is why. In camera focus adjustments are a kluge at best - a ham-handed approach that is only a simple offset to the focus - at all distances and focal lengths by the same amount. Lenses can and should be adjusted at more than one distance and focal length - like some of the Tamrons and Sigmas because focus errors are rarely linear in nature.

The following quote right from Nikon's D850 Tips page says all you need to know:

"Use only as required. AF fine-tuning should be performed at the focus distance at which the lens is normally used; finetuning performed at short focus distances may be less effective with distant subjects and vice versa.

https://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_solutions/d850_tips/useful/auto_af_fine-tuning/

The primary reason to have this feature, or even the manual version, is to perform a field adjustment in the event something is wrong. It was never intended to replace a proper factory calibration.

This, from Nikon again, confirms the intent of the AF Fine feature and when to use it and warns that it in the same as a factory calibration:

"AF tuning is not recommended in most situations and may interfere with normal focus; use only when required.

Service note: If your lens has a focus problem you should return it to Nikon Service as AF Fine-Tune is not intended to solve optical problems which will generally be outside of scope for this tool. If you have a focus problem which is always present with different lenses then this would indicate a camera setting issue or that the camera has received impact damage which is causing general defocus problems. Again return it to service."


https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/na/NSG_article?articleNo=000043897&configured=1&lang=en_SG

I have multiple bodies and a dozen lenses, and frankly I would feel like a dog chasing it's tail if I had to manually adjust each body for each lens. So I feel your frustration. I do trouble shoot a perceived focus error (camera or lens) and send in the offender to the mfgr - all of my lenses are tack sharp at all distances and in the case of zooms, at all focal lengths on all of my bodies without the need for AF Fine tuning.

So forget what you read on this forum. I've given you the words from the source. If you want to still believe that AF Fine tuning is a good, permanent solution to focus errors, then go right ahead believing . . .

This is why. In camera focus adjustments are a klu... (show quote)


I basically agree with you Gene51. A lens can back focus or front focus and may be helped with an adjustment. If you have sharpness issues the best way to fix them is send both body and lens back. I have only done that once but was actually amazed at how much I gained sending both. It was a noticeable difference. Unlike adjusting which just moves focus forward or backwards. My 105 micro front focused and it was evident doing macro shots. My long range lenses are shot so far away at f5.6 that it would be hard to tell if there was an issue big enough to matter or be noticeable.

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Dec 5, 2021 21:05:34   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Drbobcameraguy wrote:
…The advantage of a dock are you can do adjustment for several focal lengths as opposed to the camera you get 1 adjustment per lens. Although you can add a teleconverter with a lens and get a separate adjustment for that combo.


Two adjustments per lens for Canon zooms. I have been using Focal for 5 years and have found that the suggested adjustment is typically repeatable within +/- 1 over a number of tests. If you use the acuity vs aperture test, you can immediately tell if the lens is sharp or not, regardless of the correction. I find that data is as useful as the correction. For example, this graph shows not only the absolute acuity of the lens (which is compared to other lenses of the same type), but the aperture where it is the sharpest and how much you trade off in acuity due to diffraction when you stop down. In fact, even though MILCs don’t need MFA, I’m sorry I can’t characterize my Fuji lenses using this tool. Note that unlike the usual conventional wisdom, this lens is sharpest wide open - valuable information for me.



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Dec 5, 2021 21:17:55   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
TriX wrote:
There are two possible factory calibrations - one lens matched to one body (if you send both in AND they are both from the same manufacturer) or both adjusted independently to be within the factory tolerance. So no dimension or specification is exact - everything has a tolerance (I mention this as the quality manager for a high precision aerospace manufacturing company where we calibrate EVERYTHING). The net-net is that both the lens and the camera can be within factory tolerance, but when mated, the tolerance stack up creates an unacceptable error if max focus accuracy and sharpness is the goal. On the other hand, if you factory match every lens you own to one body, then it won’t be matched to another body, and let’s not forget the inconvenience, potential damage, cost and potential shock which can change the calibration during shipping. There is also no reason to believe that their “calibration” is anything different than applying a “blanket” change to the AF. Ideally, there would be a curve of corrections applied such as that created using some aftermarket lenses “docks”, but we have no way of knowing if the factory has this ability on all (or any) of their lenses.

Having said that, I will gladly grant that on most cameras with MFA, there are a max of two adjustments for zooms and one for primes, so not perfect as the “correction curve” that would be ideal, BUT it is very likely, if properly applied, to be preferable to no adjustment. The claim is routinely made that it can cause misfocusing (but if you don’t like the results of your calibration, just turn it off or reset to zero). It is also claimed that it is appropriate only at one distance and at one FL for zooms or can prevent focusing at infinity. Obviously, I can’t test every every possible lens, but I have tested a lens at multiple distances and infinity, and found that while the adjustment does vary some with distance, the KEY is that at every distance, it was an improvement at EVERY distance and focused fine at infinity. I published the results on UHH (https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-508300-1.html), and if anyone disagrees with the conclusions, I invite them to repeat the test on their lens(es) and publish the results.

For all those that claim to have never needed to adjust a lens, I would answer that without trying, one never knows if their lens can perform better or not. Needless to say, I, and many pros, do calibrate their lenses. I am in no way as good a photographer as some that do not calibrate, but I can represent that by careful calibration and measurement, I know that my lenses are delivering the max performance that they're capable of. This is one of those “religious” issues like Canon vs Nikon, PC vs Mac, etc., so those that don’t calibrate are unlikely to try it, and those that do, believe in the results they get. And of course, one has to wonder why manufacturers include this feature if it has no value when properly applied.
There are two possible factory calibrations - one ... (show quote)


When I bought my Nikon D810 in 2015, I built my system around older lenses, primes and two zooms that were either manual focus or AF and AF-D lenses that require the screw drive for focusing. I never noticed any focusing issues with these older lenses. When I added the 24-120 f/4 AF-S and the 70-200 f/4 AF-S, that's when I noticed problems. The 24-120 zoom in particular front focused to a noticeable degree at all focal lengths. I spent a great deal of time fine tuning the focus on these lenses and ended up with +6 and +3 respectively. But things never seemed perfect. I just did the auto fine tune on both of these lenses on the newer D850. -4 and + 5 respectively. What to do? I suppose I'll just see how things work out in the real world and go from there. I haven't had time to do that yet.

By the way, I'm sure you remember the Nikon FTn. That was my first real camera. That camera had two mirror positions, one that the mirror slammed down to after a shot and another after the shutter was cocked. You were supposed to focus after cocking the camera. You could see a slight shift in focus in the viewfinder when you cocked the camera for a shot. That last position was adjustable but only if you sent the camera in. In other words, focus issues with any SLR are not new.

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Dec 6, 2021 07:05:16   #
uhaas2009
 
According to Nikon no need to do this.

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Dec 6, 2021 07:13:18   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
lukevaliant wrote:
i read that i should calibrate this lens to my d7100,what is is everyones opinion on this?is it possible to use lens right out of the box?thanks in advance.


I have owned 3 200-500 Nikon lenses, I have NOT calibrated any of them and they were all sharp out of the box. I do not recommend calibrating ANY lenses, most make the lenses worse by doing so. This lens is already medium slow at F5.6, you should not have any issues. Even experts like David Busch recommends NOT calibrating lenses.
You bought a very nice lens, go out and shoot it. It is very sharp and should not need any calibration.
I shot the images below wide open. Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.





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Dec 6, 2021 07:19:24   #
tdozier3 Loc: Northern Illinois
 
lukevaliant wrote:
i read that i should calibrate this lens to my d7100,what is is everyones opinion on this?is it possible to use lens right out of the box?thanks in advance.


I have 6 different lenses and have never felt the need to calibrated any of them.

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Dec 6, 2021 07:24:19   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
tdozier3 wrote:
I have 6 different lenses and have never felt the need to calibrated any of them.



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Dec 6, 2021 07:37:10   #
AlanW Loc: Upstate NY
 
lukevaliant wrote:
i read that i should calibrate this lens to my d7100,what is is everyones opinion on this?is it possible to use lens right out of the box?thanks in advance.


I bought a used 200-500 a few years back, slapped it on my D7200 and started shooting. I didn't know anything about calibrating the lens at that point. It wasn't until I took some close range shots that I realized the focus was off. That's when I calibrated the lens and it made a huge difference. You have a good lens there and you'll get the most out of it if you calibrate first.

Alan

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Dec 6, 2021 09:02:11   #
Rab-Eye Loc: Indiana
 
rmorrison1116 wrote:
I used mine right out of the box and it worked just fine. I use the lens on a D7200, D500 and D850 and it seems to work fine.


👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

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Dec 6, 2021 10:37:23   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
uhaas2009 wrote:
According to Nikon no need to do this.


If your lenses are not focusing properly, you have to do something. They tell you that you shouldn't do it but put the adjustment in the cameras anyway. I would agree that if a lens is grossly miscalibrated, it should go back to the source, but if the lens is slightly off, I'm going to adjust the focus. There is no point in buying a high megapixel camera if you don't get perfect focus out of your lenses.

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Dec 6, 2021 10:41:24   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
billnikon wrote:
I have owned 3 200-500 Nikon lenses, I have NOT calibrated any of them and they were all sharp out of the box. I do not recommend calibrating ANY lenses, most make the lenses worse by doing so. This lens is already medium slow at F5.6, you should not have any issues. Even experts like David Busch recommends NOT calibrating lenses.
You bought a very nice lens, go out and shoot it. It is very sharp and should not need any calibration.
I shot the images below wide open. Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.
I have owned 3 200-500 Nikon lenses, I have NOT ca... (show quote)


As I just said to someone else, if a lens or multiple lenses are not focusing properly on your camera, you have to do something. You have been lucky with your lenses. I was lucky until I started buying AF-S lenses. When you can SEE that there is a problem, you need a solution, and if the adjustment in the camera doesn't work out, you can always turn it off and call Nikon/Canon etc.

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Dec 6, 2021 10:42:17   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
uhaas2009 wrote:
According to Nikon no need to do this.


That is NOT what Nikon says. Gene has published their exact verbiage on page 1 of this thread.

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Dec 6, 2021 10:50:26   #
photoman43
 
imagemeister wrote:
You CAN use it out of the box - BUT, you really should test the AF and adjust accordingly - either by you or a pro -for best results.
.



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Dec 6, 2021 16:27:05   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Drbobcameraguy wrote:
The adjustment in Nikon cameras has zero being on sharpness. It adjusts back and front focus. In other words making sure the camera focuses exactly where you focus it. Not a quarter inch behind or in front of or more. I am a perfectionist. I adjust all my lenses and use the sigma dock to adjust a lot of the perimeters on my sigma lens. None of the adjustments will make a lens sharper. It can make it sharp where you are actually focusing instead of slightly in front of or behind. If a lens is not sharp at any focal length then it has a defect. Usually due to decentering. You can test for that. I agree with you on everything just want the op to understand to look at his photos at 100 percent with the focus indicator on. If the photo is not sharp under the focus indicator look at the photo behind and in front of the indicator. If you see it is sharp anyplace other than the focus indicator it needs adjustment to bring the focus forward or move it backwards until it coinsides with the focus indicator. Of course the shot should be off a tripod at a high shutter speed and normally if I want to test it I use a test fixture similar to this.
The adjustment in Nikon cameras has zero being on ... (show quote)


You’re really splitting hairs here. When people are talking about a lack of sharpness here they’re talking about it being because of focus inaccuracies, not due to defects in the lens.

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