Black and white photography (Page 2): You probably want to use <quote reply> too.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

warrenm wrote:

I’ll check that out! Thanks

You probably want to use <quote reply> too.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

CHG_CANON wrote:

For digital captures, just edit the results, preferably the RAW images.

Black and white images are not just black and white. Color matters. Even when we were shooting black and white film, there were different emulsions that had different color sensitivity so an image taken on one film would not necessarily look the same as an image taken on another.

Try the following:

Take a photo. Put it into your editing program. Reduce the saturation to zero.

Now you have black and white.

Now change the color temperature slider and see what happens to the image. You will get brightness changes but the brightness changes of selected elements of the image will depend on the original color of those elements.

There are many other ways to convert color to B/W.

Gray = 0.2989 * R + 0.5870 * G + 0.1140 * B (CCIR 601)
Gray = 0.2120 * R + 0.7010 * G + 0.0870 * B (SMPTE 240M)
Gray = 0.2126 * R + 0.7152 * G + 0.0722 * B (ITU Recommendation BT 709)

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

DirtFarmer wrote:

br Black and white images are not just black and ... (show quote)

As well as most editors enable color filters for their B&W conversion. There's so so many digital editing options, some that have the door shut (limited) by letting the camera convert in-camera to a B&W JPEG as your only editing start-point.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

Digital cameras can't shoot in B&W.

Our digital cameras collect the spectrum of light and record it it in a file. Unlike film, there aren't versions for color and B&W. There is only digital data. To see a picture, the data has to be processed into something that is screen viewable. That includes the quick preview on the back of your camera. You can choose to process it in camera to a JPEG that keeps less than all the recorded light data. You can further process the already processed JPEG. Or, you can take advantage of all the recorded light data and process the original data in computer software.

For optimal B&W processing of the original data, there are specialty programs. One example is NIK Silver Effects. Most, if not all, popular photo software can also do a credible job.

warrenm

Thanks! I’m learning new things

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

If you want to shoot with the camera set to black & white, it is a good idea to have a few contrast filters (red, yellow, green, etc.) on hand so that you have at least some control over tonality. When you shoot in color and later convert to black & white, you don't really need such filters as their effect on the image can easily be achieved in the conversion.

warrenm

Hadn’t realized that. Thanks

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

warrenm wrote:

Hadn’t realized that. Thanks

You probably want to use <quote reply> too.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

rook2c4 wrote:

If you want to shoot with the camera set to black & white, it is a good idea to have a few contrast filters (red, yellow, green, etc.) on hand so that you have at least some control over tonality. When you shoot in color and later convert to black & white, you don't really need such filters as their effect on the image can easily be achieved in the conversion.

I'm not sure that filters will improve the final digital result. Colored filters were invented and developed for film when it was necessary to limit certain wavelengths from reaching the film.
Film and digital recording are different. I'm pretty sure we want to record all the light data and then go to work. Limiting the light data with a filter seems counter productive.

That said, there remains photographers that want to force digital cameras to act like film cameras. They seem to have a dislike for post processing and maybe choose to ignore the necessity of a darkroom for any serious B&W photography.

Just Fred Loc: Darwin's Waiting Room

I think in black and white, but shoot in color. I look at light, contrast, texture and perspective, which helps me convert color photos in B&W in post.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

When you let the camera do the B&W conversion, you have no control over how the various colors render into grey tones. Sometimes two colors next to each other render to the same shade of grey so you can't see a difference. That can be corrected in post processing to create some contrast between them.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

warrenm wrote:

Thinking of doing more black and white and wonder if I should set my camera to shoot that style or just make the change in my photo editing program. Any suggestions?

More options to shoot as raw, then decide how you want to deal with the color/contrast. Shooting B&W you'd probably want to have the standard filter set of yellow, orange, red, blue and green, along with the compensation factors. I am sure glad I don't need those anymore.

http://vnf-west.nl/BlackandWhite/7BW_PS_Conversion.html

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

rook2c4 wrote:

If you want to shoot with the camera set to black & white, it is a good idea to have a few contrast filters (red, yellow, green, etc.) on hand so that you have at least some control over tonality. When you shoot in color and later convert to black & white, you don't really need such filters as their effect on the image can easily be achieved in the conversion.

OK, if you're only using jpg from your camera.

If you shoot raw and convert to monochrome in post, you can simulate the effect of any filter you want. So don't bother with filters at shooting time. You can choose one later.

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

JohnSwanda wrote:

When you let the camera do the B&W conversion, you have no control over how the various colors render into grey tones.

Actually you do have some control - by using B&W contrast filters on the lens. They work with film as well as digital. Try it, you will see. Sometimes when shooting film, I bring a digital camera along and do a test shot with it through the filter to get a good idea what the filter will do on the film, and also which filter will work best.

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

Photomac wrote:

B/W photos continue to hold popularity due to the ... (show quote)

I agree with Photomac...because if you are new to monochrome (or returning after many years), it may be difficult to visualize what will make a good black & white photograph. Generally the best B&W images were visualized that way from the beginning, not just desaturated from color captures. Many good color photographs consist of much of the same tonality, which is not conducive to an interesting B&W image. You can then certainly work from the raw files to do the "darkroom" work to produce the best final work, but you will have the B&W JPEG "proof" which may be a really valuable guide to that work. The results will almost always be better than what is produced as a desaturated afterthought of a color image. Years ago, when I took a couple of B&W classes at the local college, we were forbidden from using color negatives to make our prints. There were a number of reasons for that, some of which are not pertinent in the world of digital photography, but many of them were, and I still follow that process of shooting purposefully when shooting B&W.