alphadog

I have a Canon 5Dmk3 using it for nature bird images.

My question is IF I were to upgrade... .which would be better and why? I have looked at the all the comparisons, specs... I am asking to someone in the field who may own or owned one or both of these bodies, thanks.

Canon 5Dmk iv V Canon 5DRs not the 5DR [mirroless model], which is too expensive 4me now.

Anyone who has any input is appreciated, thanks.

ImageCreator Loc: Northern California

I have both bodies, having upgraded my 5D3 and 7D2 this year.
I use both for birding and as long as the subject isn't flying, the 5Dsr work very well. If the birds are in flight I use the 5D4. I am very satisfied with both these bodies and since I never intend to get sucked up in the mirrorless hype, these two bodies will last me a lifetime. I use both with L lenses.

Let me know if you have add'l questions.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

The 5DIV is more versatile for moving subjects like birds. I use it when I will be able to get fairly close to the birds, such as from a blind.

The 5DS and 5DSR are ultra megapixel bodies (50.6MP) for landscape, studio etc. where high MP and detail are desirable - not really an action/wildlife/bird body. Several pro reviews I have read rate the 5DIV as the best Canon FF DSLR for birds.

The expensive Canon mirrorless is the R5 and is rated as good for birds, but many consider the 20MP R6 to be a better action body. The R series can use all the EF lenses with Canon's adapter.

alphadog

Thank you...

So the 5Dsr works for BIF better than the 5Dmk4? or not?

I need ONE body for both BIF and stationary, which ONE would work best? thanks

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

5DIV is the better action body.
5Dsr is an ultra high MP for studio, landscape and still subjects. Not really a BIF camera.

For BIF the older 7DII's AF system is still better than these and almost as good as the ultra expensive 1D series (it's AF is derived from the 1D series.)

johngault007 Loc: Florida Panhandle

Looks like the 5dmkr. Even though it has less resolution, it is more than adequate for landscape photography. That is what I chose and I haven't been disappointed yet.

rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania

I own both the 5DSr and the 5D mk IV. I purchased the 5DSr first but soon realized, as fantastic as its images are, it's not an everyday shooter. It's somewhat of a light hog and not to keen on action photography, although it can be done, and its image files are huge.
The 5D mk IV is a far, far better camera for everyday shooting, especially birds and action photography. It doesn't have the resolution the 5DSr has but it does have 30 megapixels, and that's not to shabby. I use my 5D mk IV a whole lot more often than my 5DSr.

alphadog

Robert,

Thanks... I know a "few" folks who are using the expensive 5R for nature with the uber-expensive R 600m f/4 lens to boot, way out of my league at this time. They do get fantastic results and it is within their budget, so more power to them... I am trying to avoid the any mirrorless system at this time, since the R lenses are NOT what I can afford, I prefer primes and don't care for the Canon 100 500 R lenses, since I need more reach.

I will consider now upgrading my 5Dmk3 to the 5Dmk4, thanks for your input.

jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ

I decided on the 5D IV. It still has a decent frame rate at 6fps and decent size photos at 30megapixles. Also, it's ISO has more range. I would buy the 5DSR if I were only a portrait and landscape photographer but I'm mostly a wildlife and landscape photographer.

alphadog

Thanks, faster/less mps for nature; more mps, for landscape/portrait...

One of my past mentors concluded: Canon dominates SPORTS, action imaging... Nikon landscape/studio work. The lines have become more blurred now with mirrorless outfits, both brands produce quality if you can afford them.

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

Canon 90D, more speed, more reach in better light.
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amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Your EOS 5D Mark III (2012)
- full frame 22MP DSLR
- 6 frames per second
- 61 point AF system.
- ISO 100-25600 (native)
- Discontinued (avail. used)

EOS 5D Mark IV (2016)
- full frame 30MP DSLR
- 7 frames per second
- 61 point AF system
- ISO 100-32000 (native)
- $2700 (B&H Photo)

EOS 5DS & 5DS-R (2015)
- both are full frame 50MP DSLRs
- both offer 5 frame per sec
- both have 61 point AF system
- ISO 100-6400 (native)
- $1500 (5DS-R at B&H Photo)
Notes: The 5DS-"R" has a cancelled anti-alias filter, which is done to maximize fine detail but can lead to moiré problems in repetitive patterns, such as bird feathers. The 5DS instead uses a standard anti-alias filter to reduce chance of moiré problems, but will also slightly soften the fine details in images. The 5DS model appears to have been discontinued. Only 5DS-R is still being shown available to purchase new. Both models can be bought used.

There is no such thing as either "5DRs" or "mirrorless 5DR"... you are probably referring to the 2015 5DS-R (above) and 2020 EOS R5, but have ruled the latter out on the basis of it's relatively high price ($3900).

Frankly I would recommend none of the above for birding.

Canon models I would suggest are the best options for birders are:

#1. EOS 90D (2019)
- APS-C 32.5MP DSLR
- 10 frames per sec
- 45 point AF system
- ISO 100-25600 (native)
- $1200 (B&H Photo)

#2. EOS R6 (2020)
- full frame 20MP mirrorless
- 12 fps (mechanical), 20 fps (electronic shutter)
- 1053 point AF (face, eye, animal, vehicle detect)
- ISO 100-102400
- $2500 (B&H Photo)

#3. EOS R (2018)
- full frame 30MP mirrorless
- 8 frames per sec.
- 5655 point AF (face detect)
- ISO 100-40000
- $1600

Why these models?

The 90D is a crop sensor camera. This can be a huge advantage for birders because the crop essentially acts like a 1.6X teleconverter on every lens they own. This allows you to use smaller, lighter, less expensive telephotos. For example, on the APS-C 90D a 3 lb. $1350 EF 300mm f/4L can give you the same "reach" as a 7 lb. $9000 500mm f/4L does on full frame. Yes, there are other reasons the latter lens costs so much.

In spite of it's smaller sensor, with a 32.5MP sensor the 90D offers more resolution than any of the above full frame cameras, except the 5DS models or the R5. In fact, the 90D's sensor is the highest density in any camera offered today. If it were scaled up to full frame, it would be almost 85MP... if it were scaled up to medium format digital, it would be at least 140MP. Those don't even exist (yet).

Also note that the 90D has 10 fps top shooting speed (it's actually 11 fps, but I believe that's only with locked AF, which is a no go for birders). This burst rate can be very valuable when shooting active wildlife (or sports). Of all the above cameras, only the R6 offers faster frame rate (12 fps mechanical... also 20 fps electronic, but that may cause rolling shutter problems).

The 90D has a reasonably good ISO range. How high ISO is usable is a personal decision and might vary depending upon how you will use the image and what post-processing you plan. But the 50MP 5DS models have quite limited ISO range. The 90D and every other camera on this list has at least 2 stop higher native ISO range. (Note: I only stated the native ISO range... All the cameras listed have expandable ISOs that go even higher, but personally I never use expanded ISOs and don't recommend them because image quality takes too big a hit.)

The 90D uses the latest iteration of Canon's very good 45-point AF system. The 5D Mark IV's 61-point system might have a couple small advantages, but they would be minimal. See below regarding the mirrorless cameras.

90D also has a control layout that will largely be familiar to anyone who has been shooting with the 5D models. Some buttons have moved to accommodate the articulated TouchScreen on the 90D (which the full frame DSLRs lack), but the primary controls are all in the familiar places. It also uses the same LP-E6 series batteries that your current camera and all the others on this list use. The 90D is quite power efficient, too. It's rated for 1300 shots on a battery charge, which is especially good for a camera that has a built-in flash (CIPA test requires flash on 50% of the test procedure). With reasonable power saving techniques, you should be able to get more than double that number of shots from a single battery. All these cameras also have option of adding a battery grip and doubling the battery power capacity.

90D isn't perfect, by any means... It only has a single memory card slot (SD type). The very high density of the 90D's sensor demands good quality lenses. Canon issued a list of recommended lenses for use with the 5DS models, when they were introduced.... that can be good guide, but is only full frame lenses and there are some excellent EF-S lenses like the 10-22mm, 17-55mm f/2.8, 60mm Macro and 15-85mm that rival the best FF lenses. Also, users have found the high density of the sensor requires greater care for camera shake... higher shutter speeds to offset the increased sensitivity to shake. However, most birders will be using fairly fast shutter speeds anyway, so this may not be too big a deal.

The R6 easily has the best AF system of any of these cameras.... one of the best anyone has made, in fact. Both mirrorless cameras offer significantly more advanced AF systems, but particularly the newer R6 (and there's a new firmware coming that promises to make that even better). The mirrorless camera AF systems cover nearly the entire image area (vs 40 to 50% of it covered by the DSLR array). The mirrorless AF systems also don't require calibration the way the DSLRs' do... because the mirrorless AF sensors are embedded directly in the image sensor itself. DSLRs' viewfinder AF systems use an array in the bottom of the camera, which requires light reflected by a mirror and can require calibration.

Another mirrorless AF system advantage is that they utilize direct light and that makes them able to focus in much lower light conditions. According to Canon the 90D and 5DIV AF systems can focus as low as -3EV light levels (moonlight), which is good for a DSLR. But the mirrorless cameras can focus as low as -6EV (starlight).

The R6 also has the fastest burst frame rates. However, it's also the 2nd most expensive and with only 20MP the lowest resolution camera on this list (less MP than your current camera). And, as a full frame camera, it doesn't have that "free 1.6X teleconverter" effect the 90D offers.

The original R has better resolution (30MP full frame, same as the 5DIV) and is currently on sale. But while it's AF system certainly has some advantages, it's not as capable as the 2-year-newer R6. The original R also doesn't have the frame rate offered by 90D or R6. And of course it also doesn't have the "free 1.6X teleconverter" effect.

There are actually two more cameras to complete this list: the EOS 1DX Mark III (20MP FF DSLR) and the upcoming R3 (24MP FF mirrorless). We've left them off the list because as Canon's top-of-the-line pro action cameras, both are very pricey: $6500 and $6000 respectively. But these might be considered the most ideal of all, although both being full frame will require bigger, heavier, super expensive lenses. Of course, anyone who can afford these cameras also can probably afford those lenses and possibly hire someone to help carry them around. The 1DXIII is one of the fastest DSLRs anyone has ever made, with up to 16 fps with the mechanical shutter and up to 20 fps in Live View (electronic shutter). It also uses a 191-point AF system that's the most advanced Canon has ever put into a DSLR. However, the R3 promises even better with the best action camera AF system anyone has made to date. It's also got a stacked sensor to minimize rolling shutter effect when using it's electronic shutter, which makes possible 30 frames per second silent shooting! Of course, these cameras require very large, super fast and expensive CFExpress memory cards.

Anyone who doesn't have money to spend on a 1DXIII or R3 should try to get as close to those cameras' capabilities at a lower cost. In my opinion, the 90D does that better than any other camera discussed above and at the lowest cost, plus has the advantage of being an APS-C camera that's particularly ideal for telephoto work, which is the bread and butter of bird photography. I consider the R6 a close second because of it's frame rate and highly advanced AF system, but it loses out with lower resolution and a price tag twice the cost of the 90D. The original EOS R mirrorless is sort of a compromise.... same as the 5DIV iit's got almost as much resolution as the 90D, but is full frame... it's got mirrorless AF system advantages, though not as much as the R6.... it doesn't have the fastest frame rate and is far less power efficient than the 90D... but it's pretty reasonably priced (especially with the current $200 discount, probably because it's soon going to be discontinued and replaced by a new model).

Have fun shopping!

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

Very WELL explained - in DETAIL !
.

User ID

I use a 5DSR. It’s not really an all purpose camera. The previous owner was using mine for birds and it’s obvious to me why he moved on, altho he did keep it for a few years (32k clicks).

Both the 5DSR and 5DIV are on their way out. The SR originally cost a bit more than the IV but the clearance markdowns now put the IV at about 2X the price of the SR. You don’t need a Gypsy to read those tea leaves.

Today the SR is the cheapest way to put 50MP behind the user’s existing EF lenses. Serious compromises are involved. It’s a mkIII saddled with a double dose of MP. It’s not a mkIV, and it shows.

rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania

They are both older models. You don't need a gypsy to tell you that older models get replaced by newer models. That doesn't mean they no longer function. Both my 5DSr and 5D mk IV work as well today as when I bought them, many years ago and I plan on using them for many more years.