Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

"Hard T***hs Few Want to Hear"

"President Biden on Thursday mournfully delivered information to the country that was disagreeable to many Americans: There is no way to withdraw from a futile war without messiness. The expectation that there would be no misery or casualties was a fantasy.

A case in point is the issue of Afghan refugees. “I know of no conflict, as a student of history — no conflict where, when a war was ending, one side was able to guarantee that everyone that wanted to be extracted from that country would get out,” Biden said solemnly. His historical memory is accurate.

The United States has t***sported roughly 120,000 Afghans and American citizens to safety at great human cost. That miraculous feat is a tribute to the humanity and bravery of the U.S. military and civilian personnel and volunteers. But any hope of depopulating a war-torn country, and ending the suffering there (including the dismal future for millions of women and girls) after our defeat is not grounded in reality. It belongs with the magical thinking that the United States could create a nation state in Afghanistan.

A week ago, many in the media were lecturing the administration for abandoning Afghans. Now, after we evacuated about 120,000 people at the cost of 13 American lives, reporters wanted to know why we were keeping troops at the airport. In response to such a question on Thursday, Biden said: “There are additional American citizens, there are additional green-card holders, there are additional personnel of our allies, there are additional SIV cardholders, there are additional Afghans that have helped us, and there are additional groups of individuals that — who have contacted us from women’s groups, to NGOs, and others, who have expressly indicated they want to get out.”) He was criticized for “abandoning” Afghans; when we stay to rescue them he gets faulted for risking American lives.
The insistence that there must have been a painless way — or, by gosh, a less painless way! — to lose a 20-year war, rescue all imperiled Afghans and avoid any more casualties is a fable too many insist on cultivating.
We should have kept control of Bagram airfield! (Bagram is 30 miles or so from Kabul. The U.S. military would have had to protect any caravan of refugees t***sported there, while also defending a very large facility.)

We should have pulled out everyone in April! (Would not the Afghan government have crumbled then?)
We should have known the army would collapse! (Apparently 20 years of training and effort to forge a national identity was a waste of time.)

Just leave a few thousand U.S. troops there! (And attacks akin to what happened on Thursday would magically cease? One should think long and hard before increasing the number of Gold Star parents.)
Biden seemed sincerely interested in confronting the media’s favored storylines. As reporters scoffed at the notion that the United States trusts the Taliban to provide security, Biden explained, “No one trusts them; we’re just counting on their self-interest to continue to generate their activities. And it’s in their self-interest that we leave when we said and that we get as many people out as we can.” He added, “And like I said, even in the midst of everything that happened today, over 7,000 people have gotten out; over 5,000 Americans overall.”

He might have saved his breath. Reporters will ask the same question over and over again, as if to suggest that they would have a more sophisticated approach to dealing with the Taliban than those on the ground.
The conviction that a president should have foreseen everything and escaped the consequences of a disastrous war is reflective of the mind-set of highly educated professionals, who are convinced all problems can be addressed if only we find someone wise enough to see around all the corners. There is no way to defuse the certitude of Biden’s critics, or to dispel their self-serving rationale for leaving troops there indefinitely. Biden, like all presidents, must do what he
thinks is right and leave the verdict to v**ers — and to history.

The administration made serious errors in 2021 — as did three administrations in the 19 years beforehand. The worst of the recent errors may have been believing the Afghan government and military could stand on their own, at least for a year. That, in turn, set the pace of visa processing and evacuations and the timing of a final withdrawal. The paths not taken (rushing to the exit sooner, leaving troops there indefinitely) could have had dire consequences as well, but these are abstract — while the suffering we watch is concrete and gut-wrenching.

We need some sober reflection on the folly of overeager interventionism. We need to come to terms with the delusional feedback loop between civilian and military leaders. Instead we have a media and political culture that are not serious or attentive enough to grasp that dilemmas 20 years in the making have no good answer, just less terrible ones. Everything is reduced to a partisan question. (Is Biden in crisis? Is this a boost for Republicans?) The media, it seems, does not know how to cover a tragedy without viewing it through the lens of horse-race politics. It is so much easier to pronounce the exit a “disaster” than to consider if one’s advocacy over 20 years contributed to the groupthink that sent young men and women to die. Confronted with 13 dead Americans, the press is eager to demonstrate Biden missed the obvious, safe course. What that is, they do not explain.

This week’s loss of life — both American and Afghan — is heartbreaking. With a mainstream media obsessed with stoking partisan squabbling, and Americans refusing to process the consequences of their own choices, it does make one pessimistic about self-government"

Jennifer Rubin, The Washington Post

Rose42

You can try and put lipstick on a pig but its still a pig.

Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay

You would know, you probably know someone who has tried.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

Evacuated 120,000 people because Biden caused this mess, kinda like setting a building on fire and rescuing the residences and then taking credit for saving those lives. Put all the lying spin you want to on it, Biden F this up Yugely. If this were Trump, you Lefties would be screaming for his impeachment and removal than for his public execution.

National Park

And if it were Trump you would be defending everything that happened. Biden didn't cause this mess. You may remember that the Trump administration signed a short 3 page piece of crap (read it and you will agree) exit agreement with the Taliban without even including the Afghan government. I don't recall any Trump supporters criticizing Trump for that, and if the agreement had been negotiated by Biden instead of Trump Republicans would be criticizing him.

Had Biden authorized a long, drawn out exit many more Americans would have died than the 13 brave Marines who died at the airport, and you would now be criticizing Biden for that. It was a messy exit because the Afghan military, which we spent billions of dollars to train over 20 years, suddenly forgot how to use a rifle. Instead of criticizing Biden, we should be criticizing Bush, Obama and Trump, who kept this useless war going for 20 years. At least Biden had the guts to end it.

Rose42

You people are just like some trump supporters. Its a sad time for this country to have another unsuitable president

thom w Loc: San Jose, CA

Her cosmetologist?

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

Nope, actually I wouldn't be defending Trump if he did the same thing resulting in the same outcome. But at least you admitted to your hypocrisy.

Susan14 Loc: Westchester County N.Y.

Interesting Kmgw9v…I just posted an opinion by Jennifer Rubin yesterday on Facebook. My comments preceding the article said…
Yes, there might have been a better way to get out of Afghanistan, but it took Biden’s courage to do a job that two decades of “US presidents discussing getting out” did not accomplish.
No one is celebrating the lives lost, but unless we stay in Afghanistan forever, I don’t think that could’ve been totally avoided. But, if we did stay forever, we’d continue to loose American lives in order to protect a population that will not even attempt to defend themselves after 20 years of helping/training their military…(and in some instances explicitly k**led their “American military allies”)!
People, especially Republicans these days, love to point fingers and create a scapegoat. In this case, the 20 year war that never should’ve happened was created long before Biden became President, but he is the only one to exit it…
I say give Biden the credit he deserves…

And the article…

Opinion by Jennifer Rubin


“The State Department has struggled to get a handle on the number of Americans still in Afghanistan. This is not a problem of its making, or at least not primarily of its making. In conversation with White House and State Department officials over the past few days, I got a glimpse of the scope of the effort to identify and evacuate them.
First, State had to imagine a universe of as many as 15,000 Americans — those who at any time over the years voluntarily registered with the State Department — though it anticipated that the real number of Americans still in country was far smaller. (State pointed out that not all Americans register or deregister.)
While the State Department has been criticized for not beginning mass evacuations of Afghans months ago (which in all likelihood would have triggered an earlier collapse of the government), as far back as April, it began sending one notice after another containing dire warnings to Americans, imploring them to consider the coming pullout. (“U.S. citizens wishing to depart Afghanistan should leave as soon as possible on available commercial flights,” a State Department communication warned on April 27.) Many Americans ignored these warnings.
When the Afghan government did collapse, evacuation efforts switched into high gear and went global. In a 24/7 push, approximately 500 State Department consular officials not only in Kabul but also around the world began the excruciating process of going through the thousands of names of Americans who could be in Afghanistan. Personnel in Mexico City and New Delhi took part. Ten junior consular officers in Ottawa volunteered, returned to Foggy Bottom and started making calls. The State Department also heard from retirees willing to help.
With round after round of calls, emails and texts — and with public messaging for Americans to identify themselves — State narrowed the list of Americans still in country to about 6,000. With the Aug. 31 withdrawal deadline approaching, every individual on the roster who has not yet been in contact has received some sort of message at least once a day.
Despite the logistical nightmare of reaching Kabul’s international airport — and the challenge of organizing an airlift in which, at the operation’s peak, a plane was taking off every 45 minutes (or less) — by midweek the number of Americans in Afghanistan was reduced to 900. By Sunday, Secretary of State Antony Blinken could say on ABC’s “This Week”: “We have about 300 American citizens left who have indicated to us that they want to leave. We are very actively working to help them get to the airport, get on a plane and get out of Afghanistan.” (By Sunday afternoon, a State official told me, the number was more like 250.)

In some cases, State Department employees had multiple conversations in a single day with a single American who was vacillating between staying and leaving. While Americans might find it incredible that anyone would want to stay, those still in Afghanistan (some dual nationals, some green-card holders) had to weigh factors including the fate of extended family, the prospect of severing communal ties and their hopes of building Afghanistan’s future.
When the last plane takes off with evacuees, it is possible some of the 250 might not make it out. It is also possible, though not probable, that some Americans who never registered and never contacted the State Department — or who registered but failed to respond to all those emails, texts, calls and public messages — will remain and still want to leave. Some Americans who said they wanted to stay could change their minds.
What’s the plan for them? As you might imagine, the administration has been vague on its ironclad promise to get Americans out. On “Meet the Press” on Sunday, Blinken was cagey, declining to provide details of the “mechanisms” State might have. There certainly remains the possibility of rescue operations.

In addition, Blinken said that 114 countries had signed on to a U.S.-initiated joint statement in which they reaffirmed the Taliban’s promise to allow their “citizens, nationals and residents, employees, Afghans who have worked with us and those who are at risk” to “continue to travel freely to destinations outside Afghanistan” after the Aug. 31 deadline. Blinken noted:
That freedom of travel is essential to the international community’s expectations of the Taliban going forward. And working with other countries very closely, we’re going to make sure that we put in place the means to do that. An airport that functions, other ways of leaving the country, all of that is what we’re working on in the days ahead.
Blinken’s statement has been treated with skepticism, even scoffing, especially from Republicans insistent that the administration has “abandoned” our people. But the Taliban by and large did allow nearly 6,000 Americans to reach the airport. Yes, American troops were at the airport and ready to respond, but it was evident to anyone watching the operation over the last couple of weeks that the Taliban did not fancy getting into a spat with the international community about refusing to let other countries’ citizens, nationals and residents out. (Afghans who might qualify for special immigrant visas or other priority categories are a separate matter.)
If the Taliban has any hope of remedying its desperate economic situation and avoiding retaliatory action, it has little reason to hold any American against his or her will. Could there be fights about dual nationals? Could some Americans face physical abuse? Absolutely. We lost a war to a vicious, anti-Western group whose control of the country is shaky (as the suicide attack by the Islamic State-Khorasan showed).

It is interesting, however, to compare the Afghanistan effort with prior evacuations of Americans. In 2015, the United States did not evacuate Americans as Yemen descended into chaos. (“Although many other countries evacuated their citizens, India most notably ferrying out around 5,000, the United States has said it is too dangerous for them to directly evacuate American nationals,” CNN reported in April of that year.) Likewise, when Libya fell apart in 2011, the United States ferried out a meager 167 Americans, give or take. (Tens of thousands of third-country nationals were stranded in the chaotic fighting.)
The media entrenched in the narrative that the Afghanistan operation is a “failure” may very well speculate about Americans left behind. A few Americans may even pop up after Aug. 31, which will test the commitment to bring every American home. But the herculean effort to extract thousands of Americans after the Taliban seized control of the country should not go unnoticed or unappreciated.”

National Park

Did you criticize Trump on UHH for: contesting an f**r e******n? for encouraging an i**********n? for attempting to bribe the President of Ukraine to get dirt on Biden? for not criticizing Putin? for paying off pornstars to keep their mouths shut? for bragging about his penis size in a debate? For his innumerable lies? For cozying up to dictators around the world? For undermining NATO? Etc. Etc. Etc.

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

I would have thought Vietnam would have taught the USA that nation building does not work the wat it was done.
Also last I looked we still occupy Japan and Germany over 75 years later.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

I wasn't on UHH at the time of the e******n, I was gone from here for 2-3 years till recently. Most of the rest of your stupid nonense is just BS lies.

Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

Thanks.😄

DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods

And Japan wants us out.

But the point is we are not in Germany or Japan for fear of any internal issues in Germany or Japan. We aren’t there for one reason - to keep a forward operating base(s). Against Russia and China.

Totally different that any conceivable reason for continued presence in Afghanistan.

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Your point?
We are in Japan against their will, Germany we are there because we are a major source of funding for the German government and we do occupy them.