Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Protecting images - low res or/and watermark?
Page 1 of 2 next>
Jul 18, 2021 03:10:26   #
twosummers Loc: Melbourne Australia or Lincolnshire England
 
I have completed an assignment for a new client and seeking advice on how best to secure payment whilst avoiding any embarrassment to the client. I have about 80 completed images of a holiday property. Should I

a. Send him a small selection of small low-res images (but then again these could be used by client) or
b. Send him full-size sample images with watermark?

My thinking is that watermarking is the only secure method of sharing images until payment has been honoured - so what should the watermark wording be and where on the image should it be placed?

Any and all advice from UHH experience will be gratefully received

Keep safe

Reply
Jul 18, 2021 04:40:03   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
twosummers wrote:
I have completed an assignment for a new client and seeking advice on how best to secure payment whilst avoiding any embarrassment to the client. I have about 80 completed images of a holiday property. Should I

a. Send him a small selection of small low-res images (but then again these could be used by client) or
b. Send him full-size sample images with watermark?

My thinking is that watermarking is the only secure method of sharing images until payment has been honoured - so what should the watermark wording be and where on the image should it be placed?

Any and all advice from UHH experience will be gratefully received

Keep safe
I have completed an assignment for a new client an... (show quote)


There is no way to secure anything without a written contract. Normally, you would obtain a partial payment up front, progress payment upon delivery of proofs, and final payment upon delivery of final images. Each request for payment needs to be accompanied by an itemized invoice. The written contract spells out everything - what you are doing for the client, what the client's obligations are, how much and how often payment is due, T&C (terms and conditions), what happens if payment is not received, what happens if the client is not satisfied, any discount for early payment before due date, labor rate (daily/hourly), expense reimbursement for rentals, travel, assistants, meals, etc, and so on.

Without a proper contract you present yourself to be a rank amateur, and by providing watermarking/low res images you cement that opinion. The last thing you need is to give the client the feeling you don't trust them. If you didn't trust them to begin with, you should never have taken the work.

Reply
Jul 18, 2021 06:10:15   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Gene51 wrote:
There is no way to secure anything without a written contract. Normally, you would obtain a partial payment up front, progress payment upon delivery of proofs, and final payment upon delivery of final images. Each request for payment needs to be accompanied by an itemized invoice. The written contract spells out everything - what you are doing for the client, what the client's obligations are, how much and how often payment is due, T&C (terms and conditions), what happens if payment is not received, what happens if the client is not satisfied, any discount for early payment before due date, labor rate (daily/hourly), expense reimbursement for rentals, travel, assistants, meals, etc, and so on.

Without a proper contract you present yourself to be a rank amateur, and by providing watermarking/low res images you cement that opinion. The last thing you need is to give the client the feeling you don't trust them. If you didn't trust them to begin with, you should never have taken the work.
There is no way to secure anything without a writt... (show quote)



I never deliver sealed documents until final payment is made. Progress sets are marked as such and also copyrighted.
Also they are noted as one time use unless noted otherwise.
So yes get specific contract spelling out the terms and get progress payments.
As far as trust, I do not trust any one but God.

Reply
 
 
Jul 18, 2021 06:42:16   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
twosummers wrote:
I have completed an assignment for a new client and seeking advice on how best to secure payment whilst avoiding any embarrassment to the client. I have about 80 completed images of a holiday property. Should I

a. Send him a small selection of small low-res images (but then again these could be used by client) or
b. Send him full-size sample images with watermark?

My thinking is that watermarking is the only secure method of sharing images until payment has been honoured - so what should the watermark wording be and where on the image should it be placed?

Any and all advice from UHH experience will be gratefully received

Keep safe
I have completed an assignment for a new client an... (show quote)


Low res plus the water mark right in the middle of the image, the water mark should be transparent enough that the image is clearly visible.
And, also make sure you have copyright information printed on your files.

Reply
Jul 18, 2021 08:12:22   #
FreddB Loc: PA - Delaware County
 
Architect1776 wrote:

I never deliver sealed documents until final payment is made. Progress sets are marked as such and also copyrighted.
Also they are noted as one time use unless noted otherwise.
So yes get specific contract spelling out the terms and get progress payments.
As far as trust, I do not trust any one but God.
img src="https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/images/s... (show quote)


"In God we trust, all others pay cash."

Reply
Jul 18, 2021 08:16:12   #
BebuLamar
 
I think Gene had the good advice relying on contract and up front payment. If you can't do that I think pick one of the 2 things below in my opinion.
1. Refuse the business.
2. Trust the client that they won't cheat you.

I don't think sending low res images or watermark is a good idea.

Reply
Jul 18, 2021 08:18:41   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
"There is no way to secure anything without a written contract..."
Gene speaks with much experience and wisdom here...

And yes watermarks (or other branding marks) are the "Hallmark" of a naive amateur.

There are four basic elements to a creating a valid contract:
Offer
Acceptance
Consideration
Legality

Sadly the vast majority of UHH members are only keen on procuring the latest and greatest "Kit" and remain virtually clueless on how to parley said tools into a revenue stream... Wake up folks and smell the coffee...

Best Advice for those in the US? Join the PPA or better yet the ASMP (if you can find a sponsor).
There you will encounter other commercial shooters...

However for twosummers... Since you reside in Britain might be best to seek out commercial shooters in your market try to get them to take you on as a lighting assistant. Learn from those who actually are generating revenue from their craft.

All the best on your journey twosummers

Reply
 
 
Jul 18, 2021 08:28:11   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
FreddB wrote:
"In God we trust, all others pay cash."



Reply
Jul 18, 2021 08:29:45   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Thomas902 wrote:
"There is no way to secure anything without a written contract..."
Gene speaks with much experience and wisdom here...

And yes watermarks (or other branding marks) are the "Hallmark" of a naive amateur.

There are four basic elements to a creating a valid contract:
Offer
Acceptance
Consideration
Legality

Sadly the vast majority of UHH members are only keen on procuring the latest and greatest "Kit" and remain virtually clueless on how to parley said tools into a revenue stream... Wake up folks and smell the coffee...

Best Advice for those in the US? Join the PPA or better yet the ASMP (if you can find a sponsor).
There you will encounter other commercial shooters...

However for twosummers... Since you reside in Britain might be best to seek out commercial shooters in your market try to get them to take you on as a lighting assistant. Learn from those who actually are generating revenue from their craft.

All the best on your journey twosummers
"There is no way to secure anything without a... (show quote)


Some of us have no interest in selling photos.
We actually do it for pleasure.
Once it is monetized it becomes work.
And for most that removes the fun.

Reply
Jul 18, 2021 09:57:33   #
Quixdraw Loc: x
 
A good friend built a business around another one of my areas of interest. When I was about to retire and move, I asked him about it. His answer, "Fastest way to spoil a Hobby is to turn it into a business." That may apply in some cases.

Reply
Jul 18, 2021 10:45:23   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
"...Once it is monetized it becomes work.
And for most that removes the fun..."

Architect1776 while I understand your premise do you really believe that "Fun" is a noteworthy mission purpose?
I have many years in a classroom training a myriad of disciplines. I always shared an important criteria with emerging talent i.e. my students.

When your work is your play and your play is your work you've arrived...
Until then life may become an endless series of compromises.

This adage is virtually timeless...
“Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.” Confucius

What I see on UHH is a multitude of aging children who have "retired" to live in the "promise land" of golden years... So be it...

btw, "Photograhy" is not a profession it is merely a craft...
No academic credentials are required, nor is a license to practice necessary...

I find great fulfillment in mentoring many to the gifted emerging talent I collaborate with..
But I have to pay the bills... Charging for services rendered is not necessarily a mark of a mercenary.
It is simply validation of the merit and worth of your mastery of this craft...

That said I also hold a cosmetologist license in makeup artistry from the State of Maryland.
This allows me to work for hire in commercial salons and as a counter makeup artist in high end retail.

One of the greatest joys I have now is sending a Bride down the aisle on the most important day of her life...
Her rite of passage into marriage is a pivotal moment for not only her but all friends and family members involved.
Yes recompense for Bridal Makeup artistry is at the zenith of those who work in the beauty industry...

So I love my work... both in Photographic Portraiture and Fashion Editorial...
But best of all in Bridal Makeup artistry.

Wishing you all the best on your pursuit of fun... Wherever your journey may take you Architect1776 ...

Reply
 
 
Jul 18, 2021 10:53:44   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Thomas902 wrote:
"...Once it is monetized it becomes work.
And for most that removes the fun..."

Architect1776 while I understand your premise do you really believe that "Fun" is a noteworthy mission purpose?
I have many years in a classroom training a myriad of disciplines. I always shared an important criteria with emerging talent i.e. my students.

When your work is your play and your play is your work you've arrived...
Until then life may become an endless series of compromises.

This adage is virtually timeless...
“Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.” Confucius

What I see on UHH is a multitude of aging children who have "retired" to live in the "promise land" of golden years... So be it...

btw, "Photograhy" is not a profession it is merely a craft...
No academic credentials are required, nor is a license to practice necessary...

I find great fulfillment in mentoring many to the gifted emerging talent I collaborate with..
But I have to pay the bills... Charging for services rendered is not necessarily a mark of a mercenary.
It is simply validation of the merit and worth of your mastery of this craft...

That said I also hold a cosmetologist license in makeup artistry from the State of Maryland.
This allows me to work for hire in commercial salons and as a counter makeup artist in high end retail.

One of the greatest joys I have now is sending a Bride down the aisle on the most important day of her life...
Her rite of passage into marriage is a pivotal moment for not only her but all friends and family members involved.
Yes recompense for Bridal Makeup artistry is at the zenith of those who work in the beauty industry...

So I love my work... both in Photographic Portraiture and Fashion Editorial...
But best of all in Bridal Makeup artistry.

Wishing you all the best on your pursuit of fun... Wherever your journey may take you Architect1776 ...
"...Once it is monetized it becomes work. br ... (show quote)


I love the design and personal interaction of my work.
I despise the government paperwork and intrusiveness which is very time consuming.
Takes away the fun.

Reply
Jul 18, 2021 12:51:46   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Some of us have no interest in selling photos.
We actually do it for pleasure.
Once it is monetized it becomes work.
And for most that removes the fun.


I can't agree with you on this. For me, photography will never be anything but fun. But I do stay away from real estate and wedding photography. That is torture.

Reply
Jul 18, 2021 12:56:24   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Gene51 wrote:
I can't agree with you on this. For me, photography will never be anything but fun. But I do stay away from real estate and wedding photography. That is torture.



Reply
Jul 18, 2021 13:02:20   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Thomas902 wrote:
"There is no way to secure anything without a written contract..."
Gene speaks with much experience and wisdom here...

And yes watermarks (or other branding marks) are the "Hallmark" of a naive amateur.

There are four basic elements to a creating a valid contract:
Offer
Acceptance
Consideration
Legality

Sadly the vast majority of UHH members are only keen on procuring the latest and greatest "Kit" and remain virtually clueless on how to parley said tools into a revenue stream... Wake up folks and smell the coffee...

Best Advice for those in the US? Join the PPA or better yet the ASMP (if you can find a sponsor).
There you will encounter other commercial shooters...

However for twosummers... Since you reside in Britain might be best to seek out commercial shooters in your market try to get them to take you on as a lighting assistant. Learn from those who actually are generating revenue from their craft.

All the best on your journey twosummers
"There is no way to secure anything without a... (show quote)


I use a more specific list of elements to a contract:

Contract Classification - verbal, written or with action
Offer - something must be offered for which the person making the offer expects to be compensated for
Acceptance - the person accepting the offer accepts all of the terms and conditions of the offer - or requests modifications and amendments. Once accepted, any modifications must be agreed to by all parties.
Meeting of the Minds - dovetails with acceptance - you agree to it, you abide by it. Acceptance can be by word, email, mail. Clearly if it is done by word, it's best to follow up with a letter or email confirming acceptance.
Consideration - money or barter
Capacity - the person offering the goods and/or services must be able to legally deliver what is being offered
Legality - a contract between a fence and a thief is not legally enforceable.

Reply
Page 1 of 2 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.