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Versatility vs Complexity
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Jul 10, 2021 12:12:28   #
mikegreenwald Loc: Illinois
 
For many decades, cameras have improved incrementally, with the only truly big jump arriving with digitization. Now however, complexity is challenging. The price of versatility is complexity, but in the past the increments have been of a size that I found easy to surmount.
With the arrival of my R5 a few months ago I found myself struggling to digest it all! Is my age (I'm 86) involved? What is the right compromise? Mirrorless has nothing to do with it. For the first time, I've mismanaged the camera to the point of ruining many photos because I found the menu anything but user friendly. I'm improving rapidly as I learn my way around, but it is taking more effort and time to study and learn the brain of this camera!
No regrets on my part, but don't underestimate the challenge.
What do each of you find to be the best compromise?

Reply
Jul 10, 2021 12:33:58   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Although I'm familiar with all the features my cameras offer, I tend to pay attention to only three, ISO, Shutter speed, and Aperture. The rest is just "chrome plating"
--Bob
mikegreenwald wrote:
For many decades, cameras have improved incrementally, with the only truly big jump arriving with digitization. Now however, complexity is challenging. The price of versatility is complexity, but in the past the increments have been of a size that I found easy to surmount.
With the arrival of my R5 a few months ago I found myself struggling to digest it all! Is my age (I'm 86) involved? What is the right compromise? Mirrorless has nothing to do with it. For the first time, I've mismanaged the camera to the point of ruining many photos because I found the menu anything but user friendly. I'm improving rapidly as I learn my way around, but it is taking more effort and time to study and learn the brain of this camera!
No regrets on my part, but don't underestimate the challenge.
What do each of you find to be the best compromise?
For many decades, cameras have improved incrementa... (show quote)

Reply
Jul 10, 2021 12:35:58   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
I shoot with manual aperture, shutter speed and iso, so I just need to learn how to set those on any camera, and how to set the auto focus to single point, and set the delay timer for selfies. That's all I use, so that's all I learn.

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Jul 10, 2021 13:05:30   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
I am not going to buy another DSLR just because it has more bells and whistles that I probably won't use anyway. The standard setting on my D7200 is ISO 400, Shutter 1/1000 ( I have tremors in my left hand) the camera determines aperture. Using autofocus is a given, the camera is much faster and more accurate than I am. Back button focus is a must. Almost all others are "factory settings". When I have a few bucks left over I buy lenses not cameras.

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Jul 10, 2021 13:08:34   #
btbg
 
rmalarz wrote:
Although I'm familiar with all the features my cameras offer, I tend to pay attention to only three, ISO, Shutter speed, and Aperture. The rest is just "chrome plating"
--Bob


You are correct, whether you shoot in manual, aperture priority, or shutter priority you are sill needing to control ISO, shutter speed and aperture. As long as you can do that you can take good photos. Then just take your time learning whether or not you actually want to use anything else that the camera controls allow you to do. My guess is probably not.

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Jul 10, 2021 13:14:16   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
You don't need to control anything. Put the camera in Program mode and AUTO-ISO. On a Canon EOS, put the EC at +0.3, or +0.7 if you'll edit your RAW or JPEG. After setting this basic, right almost ever time, configuration, the hardest remaining part is picking a focus mode. Expanded Area AF or the Expanded Area Around AF are good ways to just position the AF to a certain point in the frame and let the camera's intelligence take it from there. With this exposure and AF configuration, the combined brainpower for the entire Canon corporation is activated in your hands. You just need to point the camera and press the shutter.

The EOS R5 will change how we think about mirrorless, how we think about photography, how we think about life.

Reply
Jul 10, 2021 13:21:14   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Sort of reminiscent of the old Kodak slogan. You press the button, we do the rest.
--Bob
CHG_CANON wrote:
You don't need to control anything. Put the camera in Program mode and AUTO-ISO. On a Canon EOS, put the EC at +0.3, or +0.7 if you'll edit your RAW or JPEG. After setting this basic, right almost ever time, configuration, the hardest remaining part is picking a focus mode. Expanded Area AF or the Expanded Area Around AF are good ways to just position the AF to a certain point in the frame and let the camera's intelligence take it from there. With this exposure and AF configuration, the combined brainpower for the entire Canon corporation is activated in your hands. You just need to point the camera and press the shutter.

The EOS R5 will change how we think about mirrorless, how we think about photography, how we think about life.
You don't i need /i to control anything. Put the... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Jul 10, 2021 13:30:40   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
You don't need to control anything. Put the camera in Program mode and AUTO-ISO.


But in Program mode, you still need to dial in the aperture/shutter speed combination.

Reply
Jul 10, 2021 13:31:22   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
rook2c4 wrote:
But in Program mode, you still need to dial in the aperture/shutter speed combination.


No you don't. If you're unsure, try it.

Reply
Jul 10, 2021 13:40:11   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
rmalarz wrote:
Although I'm familiar with all the features my cameras offer, I tend to pay attention to only three, ISO, Shutter speed, and Aperture. The rest is just "chrome plating"
--Bob


Reply
Jul 10, 2021 13:41:20   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
rook2c4 wrote:
But in Program mode, you still need to dial in the aperture/shutter speed combination.


You don't need to. But using program mode does give you control over either shutter speed or aperture at the turn of a dial. It's almost like having aperture and shutter speed priority at the same time.

-----

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Jul 10, 2021 13:48:07   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
mikegreenwald wrote:
For many decades, cameras have improved incrementally, with the only truly big jump arriving with digitization. Now, however, complexity is challenging. The price of versatility is complex, but in the past the increments have been of a size that I found easy to surmount.
With the arrival of my R5 a few months ago I found myself struggling to digest it all! Is my age (I'm 86) involved? What is the right compromise? Mirrorless has nothing to do with it. For the first time, I've mismanaged the camera to the point of ruining many photos because I found the menu anything but user-friendly. I'm improving rapidly as I learn my way around, but it is taking more effort and time to study and learn the brain of this camera!
No regrets on my part, but don't underestimate the challenge.
What do each of you find to be the best compromise?
For many decades, cameras have improved incrementa... (show quote)


Don't worry, it ain't your age or any deficiency on your part. I'm 77 and still work every day as a professional photographer.

The engineers. designers, market research folks who make cameras and sell them are real whiz-kids. They are always figuring out more "bells' and Whistles" or should I say "pipe organs and air-raid sirens, to install in the cameras. I have an old D-90 in the shop- old technology and the menu is full of useless stuff! Much of the current stuff is worse! Many of the features are just too much and completely unnecessary. Some of the many settings are real booby-trapped and will mess up the proper settings that you already know about!

If you find any of the more complex settings useful, have at them. Otherwise, forget about all that newfangled nonsense and use the manual, or aperture or shutter priority setting you are used to and enjoy your PHOTOGRAPHY.

The instruction manual and menu for someof my camera would be better suited to a nuclear reactor. I set my shooting mode (M, A, S, or P), the ISO, White Balance, Aperture, Shutter Speed and set my meter to center spot readings because I know where to meter and lick in or I use my handheld meter or just set the exposure by instinct. I set the AF to a simple setting because I know how to select my focus point and utilize depth of field.

I love GADGETS- in the kitchen, not in my cameras. I usually buy them and they end up in the drawer because there is not better than a good sharp chef's knife for most tasks.

You are an old-timer in photography, you know a heck of a lot more than any camera menu has to offer!

I hope this helps!

Reply
Jul 10, 2021 14:01:19   #
mikegreenwald Loc: Illinois
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
You don't need to control anything. Put the camera in Program mode and AUTO-ISO. On a Canon EOS, put the EC at +0.3, or +0.7 if you'll edit your RAW or JPEG. After setting this basic, right almost ever time, configuration, the hardest remaining part is picking a focus mode. Expanded Area AF or the Expanded Area Around AF are good ways to just position the AF to a certain point in the frame and let the camera's intelligence take it from there. With this exposure and AF configuration, the combined brainpower for the entire Canon corporation is activated in your hands. You just need to point the camera and press the shutter.

The EOS R5 will change how we think about mirrorless, how we think about photography, how we think about life.
You don't i need /i to control anything. Put the... (show quote)


The problem comes with the "...right almost every time..". I prefer to skip the "almost".
I find I often have use for sequential shots for future use in panorama merges. I like high speed shutter releases for wildlife. I sometimes want exposure variations for HDR, etc. etc. I've found all of these and many other modes valuable at different times and different circumstances. If not, why buy a high end camera?
Yes, learning them takes time and effort. It's worth it!

Reply
Jul 10, 2021 14:16:04   #
mikegreenwald Loc: Illinois
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Don't worry, it ain't your age or any deficiency on your part. I'm 77 and still work every day as a professional photographer.

The engineers. designers, market research folks who make cameras and sell them are real whiz-kids. They are always figuring out more "bells' and Whistles" or should I say "pipe organs and air-raid sirens, to install in the cameras. I have an old D-90 in the shop- old technology and the menu is full of useless stuff! Much of the current stuff is worse! Many of the features are just too much and completely unnecessary. Some of the many settings are real booby-trapped and will mess up the proper settings that you already know about!

If you find any of the more complex settings useful, have at them. Otherwise, forget about all that newfangled nonsense and use the manual, or aperture or shutter priority setting you are used to and enjoy your PHOTOGRAPHY.

The instruction manual and menu for someof my camera would be better suited to a nuclear reactor. I set my shooting mode (M, A, S, or P), the ISO, White Balance, Aperture, Shutter Speed and set my meter to center spot readings because I know where to meter and lick in or I use my handheld meter or just set the exposure by instinct. I set the AF to a simple setting because I know how to select my focus point and utilize depth of field.

I love GADGETS- in the kitchen, not in my cameras. I usually buy them and they end up in the drawer because there is not better than a good sharp chef's knife for most tasks.

You are an old-timer in photography, you know a heck of a lot more than any camera menu has to offer!

I hope this helps!
Don't worry, it ain't your age or any deficiency o... (show quote)


Yes, it helps. I approach most situations in the same way you describe. However one size never fits all, and I appreciate the versatility of the best of modern cameras.

Reply
Jul 10, 2021 14:25:06   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Bill_de wrote:
You don't need to. But using program mode does give you control over either shutter speed or aperture at the turn of a dial. It's almost like having aperture and shutter speed priority at the same time.

-----

I like Program. Comes in handy.

Each mode has its own attributes and detriments. Too many do not understand the abilities of each mode.
It depends on how what mode might meet one's needs at the time, or not.
One mode being "best" is a matter of the user's personal feelings (preference). It is not cast in stone for everyone, except by [i]that[/] user. Do they really mean most used?
There are people who simply refuse to use any other mode than one.
The bad part come into play when they look down on people for using any mode other than the "proper" mode.
The proper mode is the one that does what you need done at the time.

People can use whatever mode they are glued to, but they shouldn't tell me what, in THEIR opinion, I shouldn't be using.

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