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Why? and the speed of light
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Apr 27, 2021 13:27:47   #
f8lee Loc: New Mexico
 
jackm1943 wrote:
Space itself is expanding faster than the speed of light.


And that is conjecture. Of course, since nobody knows how dark matter and dark energy fit into the puzzle, it may well be true.

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Apr 27, 2021 13:28:12   #
Dannj
 
“As far as the speed of light being a constant, it wasn't until 1905, when Einstein proposed a theory in which the speed of light was a constant”

Isn’t this like saying that Mt. Everest wasn’t the tallest mountain until it was discovered? The speed of light has always been the speed of light.

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Apr 27, 2021 13:33:36   #
f8lee Loc: New Mexico
 
Dannj wrote:
“As far as the speed of light being a constant, it wasn't until 1905, when Einstein proposed a theory in which the speed of light was a constant”

Isn’t this like saying that Mt. Everest wasn’t the tallest mountain until it was discovered? The speed of light has always been the speed of light.


You could say that, but the big deal is that the speed of light ("c") is inviolate (in a vacuum - light travels slower in water, for instance) - it is always what it is (basically 300,000 km/sec) regardless of reference point. That is, if you were riding a train at 0.5c due north and measured a laser beam's photons also heading due north, you would still measure it as 300Km/sec.

Relativity and Quantum theories both are more mind blowing the more you try to learn about them...

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Apr 27, 2021 13:40:26   #
Dannj
 
f8lee wrote:
You could say that, but the big deal is that the speed of light ("c") is inviolate (in a vacuum - light travels slower in water, for instance) - it is always what it is (basically 300,000 km/sec) regardless of reference point. That is, if you were riding a train at 0.5c due north and measured a laser beam's photons also heading due north, you would still measure it as 300Km/sec.

Relativity and Quantum theories both are more mind blowing the more you try to learn about them...


And with that I’ll take your word for it👍

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Apr 27, 2021 13:53:43   #
Schoee Loc: Europe
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
The speed of light squared is only a big number in the units you normally use to measure speed. The speed of light is 1 in units of the speed of light. Just like the length of a year is a large number if expressed in seconds, but not a large number when expressed in years. And it could be a small number when expressed in millenia or geological eons.

I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine one furlong per fortnight in terms of miles per hour or cm per second. And while you're about it, what is one mile per gallon in units of inverse acres?

As far as the speed of light being a constant, it wasn't until 1905, when Einstein proposed a theory in which the speed of light was a constant. Since the theory has been experimentally verified, it is taken as an absolute, but in Science, that will only be an absolute until a new theory comes along that explains things that Einstein's theory can't.

In Science, theories are only good until Experiments disprove them.
The speed of light squared is only a big number in... (show quote)


You are right that big numbers look small if you change the units. But as an example of the amount of energy in mass let’s consider 1 kg (about 2.2 lbs). So in SI units using E=M (c x c) = 90000000000000000 joules of energy. To put that in something we can more easily comprehend it is equal to about 21.5 million tons of TNT which is about 1.4 times the biggest nuclear weapon ever detonated by the US in a test.

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Apr 27, 2021 14:13:24   #
SalvageDiver Loc: Huntington Beach CA
 
What f8lee wrote regarding theories vs proofs was well said.

Regarding Einstein's special theory of relativity, Einstein postulated that the speed of light in a vacuum (c) was independent of the motion or speed of the observer. In other words if an observer was traveling along at 10 miles per hour and turned a light on, the light would leave the observer at 'c'. If another observer was traveling at 0.999 x 'c' and turned his light on, it would travel away from him at the same speed, 'c'. So how could light travel away from the faster observer at the speed of light, i.e. (0.999*c) + (1.000*c) = c, and not 1.999*c? After all, speed is distance per time. So this sounds impossible, right? It does if time is the same for both observers. But, time is not constant. It slows the faster you go. This is referred to as time dilation So, distance remains the same but time changes between observers. This time dilation has been demonstrated over and over. For example, your GPS measures time dilation. For GPS to remain accurate time dilation needs to be accounted for to remain accurate.

Here is a link of experiments that have demonstrated (not proved) Einsteins theory.

https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html

But it would only require one disproving experiment to kill the theory, at least in it's current form.

What sparks my imagination is the idea of a photon traveling thru space. If we talk about that photon traveling a billion light years to get to us, how long was the trip from the photon's perspective? It seems to me that, according to all of this, the photon's travel time is instantaneous. Now wouldn't that be a wild ride!

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Apr 27, 2021 14:19:24   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
f8lee wrote:
Actually, this relates to Einstein's theory of relativity, which as it happens has been proven experimentally to something like seventeen decimal points of precision.

As speed increases, time slows down (remember, "speed of light" - 300K Kilometers per second, so the time component is fundamental to it) - and in fact that has been proven by placing one atomic clock in a jet plane with a twin clock staying on the ground, flying the plane around the globe at high speed, and comparing the times on the clocks - the one in the plane ends up being fractions of a second behind the twin. Thus the theory that if one could fly at the speed of light, this "time dilation" would be such that an astronaut in a ship flying to Andromeda, which is 4 million light years distant, would only age something like 40 years while that 4 million years would pass here.

That said, there yet might be something that travels, literally, instantaneously - and that is the connection between what are called "entangled particles" in quantum physics. This too has been experimentally proven; in essence, when two subatomic particles (say, electrons) go their separate ways and a quantum measurement (like spin) that is unknown until the measure is taken, if the local electron is measured and found to have a spin of +1 then at that instant the entangled particle will also collapse into the appropriate spin (I think -1 in that case, but not sure). That happens instantly, even if they are separated by any number of light years. THis is what Einstein referred to as "spooky action at a distance".

At least, that's the best way I can describe this stuff
Actually, this relates to Einstein's theory of rel... (show quote)


I just started to dabble in Quantum Mechanics and Physics about a year ago. Interesting as hell. Especially superconductors. How a MRI works with a superconductor magnet is cool.

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Apr 27, 2021 14:34:25   #
k2edm Loc: FN32AD
 
"frankly,my dear.........................................."

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Apr 27, 2021 14:38:10   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
ek2lckd wrote:
"frankly,my dear.........................................."


Good point. We probably won't live long enough to see anything cool that will come of it eventually. I personally believe our physics are flawed in a few basic theories. That's why we have not been able to make the next great leap. We have mastered making old principals smaller and faster but there have been no truly new discoveries in my lifetime

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Apr 27, 2021 15:06:26   #
CaltechNerd Loc: Whittier, CA, USA
 
It has been tested. Many times. Not in a spaceship, but when we accelerate subatomic particles in an accelerator, we can approach the speed of light. And yes, the mass goes up and the energy to accelerate the particle goes up. Exactly as Einstein stated.

It's not really the speed of light so much as it's the speed of causality in the universe. Light travels at that speed because light consists of photons that have zero mass. If you have zero mass, then even the tiniest push will cause you to move at the maximum speed.

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Apr 27, 2021 15:17:15   #
olddutch Loc: Beloit, Wisconsin
 
At one time the belief was the man could not live traveling over 60 miles an hour.

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Apr 27, 2021 15:28:46   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
Bridges wrote:
I've read it is impossible to exceed the speed of light. Why? If we put a nuclear engine in a spaceship and had it continue to accelerate for say a month, why couldn't the speed of light be surpassed?

Your approach won't work because of the reasons previously given; however, you could travel faster than the speed of light if you could expand space around you since space can expand faster than the speed of light.

Theoretically a so called 'warp' drive is possible and could overcome the speed of light 'limitation'.

bwa

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Apr 27, 2021 16:24:42   #
lenben Loc: Seattle
 
This has been tested. When elementary particles are accelerated in physics devices, they gain weight exactly as predicted by Einsteins equations. The magnetic strength to keep them circulating has to increase to compensate for the mass increase. As the speed increases there is a limit due to limitations of the power to increase the magnetic force but since the increase increases according to the equations, the projection would have continued to infinite mass if that were possible.

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Apr 27, 2021 16:41:30   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
bwana wrote:
Your approach won't work because of the reasons previously given; however, you could travel faster than the speed of light if you could expand space around you since space can expand faster than the speed of light.

Theoretically a so called 'warp' drive is possible and could overcome the speed of light 'limitation'.

bwa


Exactly!! There has been some new papers on the feasibility of a warp drive and we are getting closer to possibility. Now if we can just figure out where our number one theory goes amiss. It does and a few months ago they believe they may have discovered that it does but obviously more research is needed.

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Apr 27, 2021 17:54:51   #
Mark Sturtevant Loc: Grand Blanc, MI
 
Of course ftl travel is a theoretical possibility. There is a limit to how fast one can go within conventional space, but if you create a field that changes the dimensions of space, then you can go faster than light through that altered space. Or something like that. Anyway, its explained here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

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