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Canon Sensor development
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Apr 8, 2021 17:06:42   #
al lehman Loc: San jose, ca.
 
The new drones are coming out with 1 inch sensors. I believe the new DJI air 2S will have a 1 inch sensor. More pixels = higher resolution. Clearly it's a moving technology target. Thanks for your research.

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Apr 8, 2021 17:08:28   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
R.G. wrote:
There's curvature and then there's curvature. I suspect that a high level of precision is needed to maintain the sharpness across the sensor. Just bending it with a piezo crystal may not be precise enough - unless they've come up with something clever......


And you know they have not?

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Apr 8, 2021 17:12:17   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
larryepage wrote:
Actually, at least one patent was already awarded to them in this area. After seeing your post, I did some research, reading some articles in the popular domain and downloading a couple of academic ones. Keeping in mind that many times, companies in the business of intellectual property will patent a technology not nearly so much because they want to actually produce it as because they want to make sure that no one else makes it. (or if they do, they have to pay to license the rights to do so.)

Once you dig a little bit, you learn a couple of things. The first is that these sensors are not made as curved sensors. They are made as flat sensors, then "deformed," forcing them to assume the curved shape. The second is that they are produced on silicon (or whatever semiconductor material) substrate that is significantly thinner than normal sensors in order to make them easier to curve. Unfortunately, silicon is like glass, so that means that it becomes more fragile as it gets thinner. In fact, while work has been done on "full frame" size sensors, the most recent articles indicate that current work is being focused on significantly smaller sensors for applications like drone cameras.

There was an old joke about the difference between being "involved" and being "committed." The parallel had to do with breakfast and how the chicken was involved in breakfast (the eggs), while the hog is committed to breakfast (the ham). The reason this matters here is that there is no reasonable way to adapt planar image lenses to curved sensor cameras nor curved image lenses to flat sensor cameras.

There seems to be a consensus that this is not a near-term development for general photography, but that the focus will be to equip miniature drones and other surveillance equipment. I wouldn't be surprised if it were militarized, classified, and kept from the commercial marketplace altogether.
Actually, at least one patent was already awarded ... (show quote)


The variable curved sensor adjusts to each lens including zoom lenses. Remember Canon has had fully electronic only communication between lens and camera since the 80's unlike all others who waited nearly 30 years to reach that same level of sophistication.

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Apr 9, 2021 04:14:57   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
Architect1776 wrote:
And you know they have not?


All I have to go by is what I saw the last time I looked into it, which was fairly recently, but I've no way of knowing how up to date that information was at the time I saw it. According to those reports the problems that I mentioned hadn't been resolved. And just because somebody has successfully filed for patents on an idea, that doesn't mean that the idea is fully optimised or that they have a working example. If the problems can be resolved, curved sensors are the obvious way ahead. If they had solved the problems they wouldn't be sitting on it and we would be seeing the results by now (unless the products are still in the process of being developed and just about to be announced).

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Apr 9, 2021 07:47:19   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
al lehman wrote:
The precision on the hubble space telescope glass is incredible and it works under tremendous environmental variations with heat and cold. Similar technology.


But remember that before the correction mechanism was installed, Hubble was unusable. And the error was something like 2-4 microns on a telescope the size of a school bus.

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Apr 9, 2021 07:58:45   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
al lehman wrote:
I've heard rumors that Canon may have filed for a new curved sensor patent. Has anybody heard of this or familiar with this potential sensor technology?


Sony has been producing a curved sensor since 2014 and I'm sure its within all the major camera companies technology to do so...here's an interesting read;

https://www.phonearena.com/news/Sony-breaks-new-ground-with-camera-sensors-curved-like-the-human-eye_id57124

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Apr 9, 2021 08:05:55   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Blaster34 wrote:
Sony has been producing a curved sensor since 2014 and I'm sure its within all the major camera companies technology to do so...here's an interesting read;

https://www.phonearena.com/news/Sony-breaks-new-ground-with-camera-sensors-curved-like-the-human-eye_id57124


But where is it?

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Apr 9, 2021 08:26:25   #
brooklyn-camera I Loc: Brooklyn, NY
 
Just what is the benefit of a curved sensor? Never heard of curved sensors. Are these sensors for FF or cropped cameras? Never to old to learn.....

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Apr 9, 2021 09:37:00   #
JBRIII
 
Some telescopes devoted to photography only require/required curve film, Schmidt cameras I believe, large mirrors with short fl. Also, I know field flatiners are made, for refractors I believe.

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Apr 9, 2021 10:24:52   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
larryepage wrote:
But where is it?


Don’t know Larry, hasn’t interested me that much...I’m still trying to get a flat sensor to work for me.

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Apr 9, 2021 11:05:03   #
Blair Shaw Jr Loc: Dunnellon,Florida
 
BINGO !.......

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Apr 9, 2021 11:31:30   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Blaster34 wrote:
Don’t know Larry, hasn’t interested me that much...I’m still trying to get a flat sensor to work for me.


I thi9nk it's probably going to tyrn out that these are going to be most useful photographing things that are flat or nearly so...like surveillance of the ground from above or maybe for copying documents or flat art. Once the subject starts having the third dimension, when depth of field starts getting involved, it seems to me that a lot starts going away.

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Apr 9, 2021 12:12:10   #
DonVA Loc: British Columbia and New Mexico
 
al lehman wrote:
I've heard rumors that Canon may have filed for a new curved sensor patent. Has anybody heard of this or familiar with this potential sensor technology?


I don't want to hear this. My R5 is in the mail along with a 24-105 to go with it. So it's obsolete before I get it?
Should have waited I guess.

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Apr 9, 2021 12:50:48   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
al lehman wrote:
The precision on the hubble space telescope glass is incredible and it works under tremendous environmental variations with heat and cold. Similar technology.


And the Hubble had to have corrective lenses fitted before it was very usable. There were flaws in the manufacture of the original optical elements.

A friend of mine was an engineer working on the Hubble and attended the launch. It was built in a clean room, sealed hermetically for transport to the launch, loaded into a shuttle.... which was then bathed in floodlights at night with the bay doors open! What happens when you shine extremely bright lights outdoors on a warm Spring night in Florida? Every winged bug within 30 miles comes a-runnin'! They had one heck of a mess. I recall seeing an "insect on the windshield" cartoon about it, shortly after the launch.

By the way, the optical telescope in the Hubble was sort of an afterthought. The original design was focused (pun intended) on X-ray and electromagnetic "viewing". The optical capabilities were later added largely for public relations purposes.... Not that this is a bad thing. Think of all the amazing images we've seen Hubble generate over the years (most of which are actually a combination of the different spectrums and "colorized", not purely optical in nature). It's definitely generated a whole lot of interest in astronomy that might not have happened without those images.

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Apr 9, 2021 15:11:15   #
goldenyears Loc: Lake Osewgo
 
rmalarz wrote:
Good point. So, here's a suggestion. Since they are trying to emulate the curvature of the eye, why not make the lens variable by changing the curvature. All we need is a flexible, perfect clear optical component.
--Bob


I've been wearing flexible optical components for 10 years. My vision, having had flexible lenses implanted after cataract surgery for both eyes, is better than throughout my entire life previously.

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