What is wrong with Nikon Customer Support?
Mar 31, 2021 09:31:09 #
Rick from NY
Loc: Sarasota FL
jbk224 wrote:
First let me say that I am not a Nikon NPS member.... (show quote)
I am an NPS member and agree that I get excellent service as a result. But the OP isn’t and he is mentioning that regular customer service wasn’t able to offer help with the software. Entirely different issue and I can understand the frustration, but in Nikon Service’s defense, the software is brand new and a CS staff cannot be expected to have knowledge about every issue that crops up in new software. If Nikon knew about a particular bug in its software, it undoubtedly would have alerted its service people. Perhaps the OP’s color shift was the first time Nikon heard about it? Of course, the service rep should have replied that he/she would kick it up the line for a reply and get back to him, but slamming the service center because it didn’t have the answer to a possibly heretofore unknown issue seems out of line.
OP - Just curious - you know of any brands of anything that have not cut back on call - in service centers? Or allow you to speak with a human in the US when you call?
Mar 31, 2021 09:58:52 #
Ysarex
Loc: St. Louis
camerapapi wrote:
Ysarec, I was expecting from Nikon something like what you have just described but the person I dealt with gave me the impression he knew nothing about the NX Studio software. He was asking about changing colors using by mistake Picture Control. I have never messed with Picture Control while editing my RAW data.
In the EDIT menu I have ProPhoto selected as my color space and I am assuming that it is the color space I am working with while editing RAW data.
In the EDIT menu I have ProPhoto selected as my color space and I am assuming that it is the color space I am working with while editing RAW data.
When set via the Options sub menu under the Edit menu for the option Color management: Yes.
camerapapi wrote:
Now, you are saying that the software upon exporting the TIFF file will output as Nikon Adobe RGB.
Correct. Unless you have checked the box in the Edit/Options/Color management dialog under Output to convert to sRGB.
camerapapi wrote:
I noted the weird colors ONLY when in the Convert Files dialog I checked Embed ICCV Profiles.
This is really important: In your first paragraph above you mention NX Studio and so I assumed that in my two responses above I am referring to NX Studio.
Now you're talking about Capture NX-D. The two apps behave differently. We need to be very clear which one we're talking about.
camerapapi wrote:
I am under the impression that if in the Color Management dialog I check ProPhoto when in the Export mode if I check Add Color Profile it is ProPhoto what I am exporting.
It is not. This is NX Studio now we are talking about. If you export a TIFF file from NX Studio the output image is converted to Nikon Adobe RGB if the Add/Remove ICC profile box is unchecked or checked and the option Add is selected.
camerapapi wrote:
I have said the colors in the exported file appear weird, unnatural. If I do not check it then the colors appear natural.
In NX Studio: When exporting a TIFF (NOT JPEG), If the Add/Remove ICC profile box is unchecked or if the box is checked and the Add option is selected the results are the same. The output file is converted to Nikon Adobe RGB and the ICC profile is applied.
camerapapi wrote:
I do not know if ProPhoto can be exported with the TIFF file but if it can be done that is exactly what I would like to do BEFORE I work with that color space with Affinity Photo.
Output files can not be converted to ProPhoto nor tagged with the ProPhoto ICC profile when exported/converted from NX-Studio or Capture NX-D.
camerapapi wrote:
The Customer Service representative at Nikon did n... (show quote)
Mar 31, 2021 11:01:48 #
I can't speak to Nikon, but they may not know because the software is contracted out. I ran into this years ago at work. Software was written in India for a major US instrument company. They knew less than I did about the actual coding where the problems laid. The wore thing was I found one wrong processing thing after the other, things other customers never reported, one package was corrected three times in a matter of weeks. All this implied other customers stuck in numbers, got answers and never noticed the errors the equivalent of changing an option in PS and not noticing the results were the same, i.e., 5 x 10 = 10 x 10.
Mar 31, 2021 11:04:16 #
Picture Taker
Loc: Michigan Thumb
I purchased a Nikon a few years ago. Had a problem with it, out of the box. Felt with Nikon Tech Svs. 4 times gave up took the camera back to the store, they looked at it for 5 seconds and said it's defective and will replace it.
I replaced it with a Canon and never looked back.
Now don't bother attacking me for not dealing with Nikon, I don't care.
I replaced it with a Canon and never looked back.
Now don't bother attacking me for not dealing with Nikon, I don't care.
Mar 31, 2021 11:48:30 #
I originated the phrase "What is wrong with Nikon Customer Support" based on frustration. I can understand that Nikon is not a software manufacturer but if they release a software the least a customer could expect is help when needed. I have received better answers here than those I have received from Nikon and as far as I know those answers did not come from software manufacturers.
I resolved my issues with the software for the D610 but not for the D7000. I open the RAW data from the D7000 in NX Studio with the same settings I used for the D610 but instead of saving the TIFF file as a Nikon Adobe RBG it saves it like a Nikon sRGB with the D7000. Still I have not been able to figure this out. Why RAW data from one camera behaves so differently to another camera? I do not really know.
For now I can work with what I have although I do not know if I am doing the right thing with the D7000. Once the RAW data is transferred (16 bits TIFF) to my desktop as a Nikon sRGB file and I open the file in Affinity Photo I convert it to Adobe RGB to keep on making adjustment. This does not sound right to me because I am going from a small color space to a wider one. The file is still a 16 bits but I do not believe I am doing the right thing.
As I said, still I have not figured out how to transfer the RAW Nikon data to my desktop so that when I open the file in Affinity Photo it will be an Adobe RGB.
I resolved my issues with the software for the D610 but not for the D7000. I open the RAW data from the D7000 in NX Studio with the same settings I used for the D610 but instead of saving the TIFF file as a Nikon Adobe RBG it saves it like a Nikon sRGB with the D7000. Still I have not been able to figure this out. Why RAW data from one camera behaves so differently to another camera? I do not really know.
For now I can work with what I have although I do not know if I am doing the right thing with the D7000. Once the RAW data is transferred (16 bits TIFF) to my desktop as a Nikon sRGB file and I open the file in Affinity Photo I convert it to Adobe RGB to keep on making adjustment. This does not sound right to me because I am going from a small color space to a wider one. The file is still a 16 bits but I do not believe I am doing the right thing.
As I said, still I have not figured out how to transfer the RAW Nikon data to my desktop so that when I open the file in Affinity Photo it will be an Adobe RGB.
Mar 31, 2021 12:01:15 #
Ysarex
Loc: St. Louis
camerapapi wrote:
I originated the phrase "What is wrong with N... (show quote)
This is new information for me -- that different cameras generate different results. In the tests that I've run so far when NX Studio incorrectly tags a JPEG with the sRGB ICC profile the file was in fact converted to the Nikon Adobe RGB profile and then mistakenly tagged sRGB, not Nikon sRGB but just sRGB. Assigning Adobe RGB to the file corrects the colors.
I'll investigate further this afternoon.
EDIT: I just investigated: WOW! This is nuts! NX Studio is treating raw files from different cameras differently. I just downloaded a sample raw file from a D7000. In NX Studio the output file exported as a 16 bit TIFF is converted to Nikon sRGB and then tagged with the Nikon sRGB ICC profile -- REGARDLESS of whether the export option Add/Remove ICC profile is checked or not. With my Z7 the output file was converted to and tagged with Nikon Adobe RGB box checked or not. Real craziness going on here!
EDIT MORE: With raw files from the D7000 the Add/Remove ICC profile option at least does remove the tag for both JPEG and TIFF output files and so leaves them untagged. In both cases JPEG/TIFF and regardless of the status of the ADD/Remove check box AND with the option selection to convert to sRGB left unchecked the D7000 files are converted to Nikon sRGB.
camerapapi wrote:
For now I can work with what I have although I do ... (show quote)
Mar 31, 2021 12:45:58 #
Ysarex
Loc: St. Louis
NOTE to all:
Color management in NX Studio appears to be broken. It's very hard to identify how it's broken and/or how badly because it behaves differently with raw files from different Nikon cameras. At this point all you can do is test it's behavior with each specific camera you use and determine what in fact it is doing. What it does is not necessarily consistent with what you think is set up in Options/Color management or the selections you make in the Export dialog.
Hopefully they will get it debugged soon enough -- until then we can use it but we have to watch it and test what it's doing.
Color management in NX Studio appears to be broken. It's very hard to identify how it's broken and/or how badly because it behaves differently with raw files from different Nikon cameras. At this point all you can do is test it's behavior with each specific camera you use and determine what in fact it is doing. What it does is not necessarily consistent with what you think is set up in Options/Color management or the selections you make in the Export dialog.
Hopefully they will get it debugged soon enough -- until then we can use it but we have to watch it and test what it's doing.
Mar 31, 2021 12:54:01 #
Many standards still leave lots of room for variations in what must be provided. Remember the old RS232 which had 25 pins, only 3 of which were often used, data in, data out and ground, pins 1 or 2? , 7 and 20 I believe. Eventually went to nine pins, now USB. But if your equipment needed one of those other 25 which were rarely used, bad news if you only had 3 wires. Software stds can be same way, put something in the wrong place or leave it out and assume it is always X, then another package reads the same data in a different way.
Recently there was a thread on effects of repeated compression of files using jpeg. I looked up the std for jpeg, i.e., does the std do something like remove X% of noisiest data. If so then repeated use could continually remove data until nothing left. I never found the answer, but found that what is called jpeg now isn't even the original std in many cases, at least from what I found. If correct, it could mean that some jpegs may not even be opennable by some software and certainly could be mis-interpreted.
You appear to be making good progress, a label is not being changed properly, so next program interprets file incorrectly.
For many problems I see here, really understanding what happens requires a knowledge of mathematics at levels beyond all but experts in such areas, unfortunately.
Good luck;
Recently there was a thread on effects of repeated compression of files using jpeg. I looked up the std for jpeg, i.e., does the std do something like remove X% of noisiest data. If so then repeated use could continually remove data until nothing left. I never found the answer, but found that what is called jpeg now isn't even the original std in many cases, at least from what I found. If correct, it could mean that some jpegs may not even be opennable by some software and certainly could be mis-interpreted.
You appear to be making good progress, a label is not being changed properly, so next program interprets file incorrectly.
For many problems I see here, really understanding what happens requires a knowledge of mathematics at levels beyond all but experts in such areas, unfortunately.
Good luck;
Mar 31, 2021 15:06:35 #
Mar 31, 2021 17:56:50 #
No one seems to answer emails at support any longer. I emailed a local computer shop about cost to replace laptop fan, gave model, etc. Been days, no response. Stopped by today, 5 minutes to drop off a pad for repair and get estimate on laptop. Why have email support if you aren't going to answer?
Mar 31, 2021 18:57:39 #
Perhaps you should look and see if the Nikon software is implementing a colour profile coming from the camera... I often use a Velvia colour profile in my D5500. You can chose to implement the camera's colour profile or not when you import the nef file. This is common with the Canon and Sony software as well.
Mar 31, 2021 22:46:14 #
My findings have been similar to those of Ysarex, who by the way has offered lots of information in this thread. The RAW data from my D610 and that of the D7000 behave exactly as he has previously mentioned. My D610 exports as Adobe RBG but the D7000 as Nikon sRGB only. This ineed makes no sense to me. The representative I talked to have no idea that this is going on. I guess he has no idea of what is going on with the software. I hope Nikon will correct this and make Adobe RGB the color space to be exported.
I never had these issues with View NX-2, a simpler and easier to use software. I just downloaded View NX-2.
What a mess!
I never had these issues with View NX-2, a simpler and easier to use software. I just downloaded View NX-2.
What a mess!
Apr 11, 2021 12:22:00 #
Its been a while for some of my conversions -and honestly have to really get back into it myself. I used Photoshop for advertising graphics and often had various source files supplied by the customers. with various file formats - well in those cases PS would often prompt me to convert the image to a different color palette or profile - in some cases just adding the image the program by default made adjustments. So you may need to check some of the tools settings or default options and you may find that their is a standard profile that it converts to that is not fully compatible...
Customer support at Nikon may not be to place to contact for expert advice if its a software issue on conversions - these folks often type in your question or symptom and then just follow the prompts that populate their screen to advise you with.
Customer support at Nikon may not be to place to contact for expert advice if its a software issue on conversions - these folks often type in your question or symptom and then just follow the prompts that populate their screen to advise you with.
Apr 11, 2021 13:48:06 #
camerapapi wrote:
My findings have been similar to those of Ysarex, ... (show quote)
Bill, does anyone know what company developed NX Studio? I believe that NIK developed Capture NX2 [the control point technology that disappeared from NX-D after NIK ownership changed hands]. Nikon IS after all an optical/camera company that, I'm guessing, "farms out" development of "their software". Other Hogs, help me out on this?
Apr 11, 2021 16:20:07 #
camerapapi wrote:
You be the judge. If anyone here is using NX Studi... (show quote)
Set all software to same color space. For example, Lighroom is set to Pro Photo so I set PS and other software to Pro Photo and there is no color shift when I go back and forth. That's all I can offer up...good luck.
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