Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Is Diffraction A Real Problem?
Page <<first <prev 6 of 6
Mar 11, 2021 06:37:21   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
radiomantom wrote:
I agree totally with Bryan Peterson. When shooting landscapes for example and you want as much dof as possible go to f22 and shoot away. The quality by far of the majoity of lenses today are corrected to the point as to where you will never see it.


Diffraction has absolutely nothing to do with any possible optical corrections - and it is consistent across focal lengths, lens brands etc. A Leitz mm lens used at F22 will produce the same detail loss due to diffraction as a more modestly priced lens. As a photographer who shoots landscapes, I can say without hesitation, that Peterson's advice is not as sound as it should be, and trading off image quality for depth of field doesn't work as his advice is suggesting, especially with cameras like the high resolution D8XX series from Nikon. I would have no qualms about using F22 on a 12 mp D700, however.

You may want to test this yourself and post the results.

Reply
Mar 11, 2021 09:06:41   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
Or focus stacking could help.


And the new tech in Adobe ACR - Super Resolution which actually works on Raw files for results superior to AI, Interpolation, Fractal and other kinds of "up-rezzing" tools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glxosZiBC6c

It was released today, and just might be a game changer for increasing image resolution in megapixel count, while preserving and actually enhancing fine details, using very high frequency microcontrast adjustments.

Reply
Mar 11, 2021 09:26:43   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
Perhaps I didn't say it in the correct way so I'll add this bit of information to supplement how increased magnification creates an 'effective aperture' and how that affects diffraction.

"When working at higher magnifications, a unique set of challenges becomes apparent, too. Achieving focus can be more difficult, depth of field is reduced, and there is the unique challenge of having a changed effective aperture. Put simply, when working at greater magnifications, roughly 1:2 or more, the displayed aperture on your lens or in your camera will be slightly different from what the true f-stop is, and this number will continue to change as the magnification of your shot increases. This is due to the focal length of the lens beginning to change as focus extension changes; since the lens is physically further away from the sensor or film, there is a change in exposure and f-stop. This increase in effective f-stop comes with a set of consequences, including a change in depth of field, greater potential for diffraction, and the requirement for increased exposure time to yield the same exposure as if working at a lower magnification."
Perhaps I didn't say it in the correct way so I'll... (show quote)


I'm pretty sure this is what I understood from what you wrote. But I think there are some assumptions being made that may not be completely accurate. Focal length (angle of view at the entrance pupil) does not change as you increase magnification as you move the lens further away from the sensor - and that would not change the Airy Disk size anyway. I will suggest that nearly all lenses made today are internal focus type and subject to varying degrees of breathing due to the lens designer choosing to reduce focal length at minimum focus distance.

What you are referring to in your "effective aperture" is really only a change in light transmission as the lens is moved away from the sensor plane - it is not a change in any of the factors that affect diffraction. I sometimes use my 85mm F2.8 PC-E, which is not an internal focus lens, which changes light transmission from F2.8 to F4.2 at minimum focus distance and max aperture. It is still an 85mm lens, the angle of view doesn't change (even though a different focal length alone would not affect the Airy Disk Size resulting in different diffraction results), and the calculated Fstop doesn't change, therefore there is no change in diffraction, as you are suggesting. If I set this lens to F8, the meter reports it is only seeing F12 and will use that to calculate the exposure. But the diffraction will not increase because of the lower amount of light - the opening in the lens relative to the focal length remains the same - as does the Airy Disk size.

Reply
 
 
Mar 11, 2021 09:39:00   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
Thanks Gene...
I read your post in the Super Resolution thread... and looked at dpreviews article you linked to...
https://www.dpreview.com/news/0299184261/adobe-releases-photoshop-for-m1-macs-and-introduces-super-resolution-in-acr

Very interesting what enhancements software can achieve in perceived acuity...
Albeit shooting at a lens' optimum aperture goes a long ways to maximizing acuity in my humble estimation...
For my client work I live between f/8 and f/13 depending on the optic.
However for sports I'm nearly always wide open.
DxOMark does a stellar job of scoring an optics performance at various apertures.
I've been very pleased with following their results...

Thanks again Gene for stay abreast of current industry trends.

Reply
Mar 11, 2021 10:41:32   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
wdross wrote:
I think that is the point. If it could have been done at f8, get the same sun star effect, and lose the diffraction too, you would have done that. But things like that are not always possible. It is called creative thinking, choosing what to make important versus competing factors. Always an issue for all photographers.


Totally agree!

I didn't have to go to F22 to get stars. F10 is fine, and so is F6.3 as one can see below.

.

F10
F10...
(Download)

F6.3
F6.3...
(Download)

Reply
Mar 11, 2021 11:18:46   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
User ID wrote:
Lost detail is a nonissue. It’s lost and thus nonexistent, so no one misses it. What is important is that what detail there is should look sharp to the eye.


This is only valid in proper context. Detail that exists but is not captured - aka "lost" - but expected to be there, is very much an issue, at least in some circles. In general, lens designers, camera manufacturers, tripod manufacturers and the majority of photographers would not agree with your statement.

Reply
Mar 11, 2021 13:50:57   #
petrochemist Loc: UK
 
Yes diffraction can be a problem, it's very noticeable on some of my longer focal length set-ups. At normal f-stops it's not a significant issue, but if you stop down to f/64 you don't need pixel peeping to see the effect.

Reply
 
 
Mar 11, 2021 23:11:25   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Gene51 wrote:
Totally agree!

I didn't have to go to F22 to get stars. F10 is fine, and so is F6.3 as one can see below.

.


Great night shots. Especially like the second one for the mood generated.

Reply
Mar 12, 2021 08:57:50   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Thomas902 wrote:
Thanks Gene...
I read your post in the Super Resolution thread... and looked at dpreviews article you linked to...
https://www.dpreview.com/news/0299184261/adobe-releases-photoshop-for-m1-macs-and-introduces-super-resolution-in-acr

Very interesting what enhancements software can achieve in perceived acuity...
Albeit shooting at a lens' optimum aperture goes a long ways to maximizing acuity in my humble estimation...
For my client work I live between f/8 and f/13 depending on the optic.
However for sports I'm nearly always wide open.
DxOMark does a stellar job of scoring an optics performance at various apertures.
I've been very pleased with following their results...

Thanks again Gene for stay abreast of current industry trends.
Thanks Gene... br I read your post in the Super Re... (show quote)



Reply
Mar 12, 2021 08:58:11   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
wdross wrote:
Great night shots. Especially like the second one for the mood generated.


Thanks!

Reply
Page <<first <prev 6 of 6
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.