Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
People Photography
Help With Black and White Portrait
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
Mar 4, 2021 12:01:17   #
kenievans Loc: Dallas
 
Thomas902 wrote:
Keni such a lovely rendering of this enchanting mature Princess... superb hair styling... chic ear decor... albeit the choice of plaid wardrobe isn't in harmony with the "elegance" latent within... moving forward please consider plaids for causal candid only, k?

btw, asking for assistance in a photography forum is likely going to generate somewhat narrow minded responses... a.k.a. Maslow's hammer... Commercial portraiture is a team effort involving hair stylist, makeup artist, wardrobe styling etc. The photographer is only one player on this team no more and no less important in all other players. My credentials? I worked for "Glamour Shots" as a makeup artist at the bottom end and as the Key Makeup Artist on many high end Beauty Genre sessions. Enough said.

To answer your query I'm sharing with you some of the wisdom I've gleaned over the years. As other "Photographers" have previously mentioned you've not exposing this capture correctly... The tonal range is compressed nearly entirely into the low half of range. See below... A 30 second tweak in Photoshop brought back much of the missing range albeit at the dear price of stretching data way beyond practical limits... Had this been a commercial shoot the client would have rejected it and you would have to re-shoot it and eat the expense... experience is a brutal teacher..

From your web portal it is obvious you've been in the game for a while...
https://kenievansphoto.myportfolio.com/portraits-2

Your lighting setup is perfectly germane to the narrative here only the exposure and composition are an issue...
As for composition? This Princess' hand is a distraction... In portraiture the face should always dominate and be closest to the lens... few if any exceptions work well... Since there is no EXIF data in this image I'm simply guessing your FL is also way too short. This aggravates the perception of her hand being larger than her face. That is to be avoided in portraiture... Even though you have the hand elegantly positioned it is simply way too large... Always have the talent's hand(s) at the same distance as the face... I actually have them position them slight behind their face.

"... My friend, like the my model here has deep lines around her mouth. I want to help diminish them...
btw "Those Lines" are called the NASOLABIAL FOLD... and are typically professionally corrected with concealer makeup product... This is why Bridal Makeup Artist make the big bucks... Wedding photographers are notorious for not doing much in the way of PP corrections... A "Wedding" event is a women's most epic photo shoot of her life... It's got to be right in camera, period... Yes I had to master facial anatomy to obtain my Cosmetologist License in Makeup Artistry. Commercial Makeup Artistry is a Profession... while commercial photography is merely a craft which does not require professional licensing.

I could go on for hours here Keni but I have client work staring me in the face... Sorry, at the end of the day it's all about money... only hobbyist seek recognition and positive reinforcement... As the master poet of my generation once said. "It's either fortune or fame you must chose one or the other though neither are to be what they claim"

Wishing you all the best on your upcoming Princess session... just take care in positioning hands and try to avoid the plaid wardrobe, k?

And please stay safe... I closed my studio on July 1, 2020 because of the pandemic. Not in any hurry to open it again... Still trying to scheduled a vaccine injection... Even though I'm in Group 1A in my state it is still virtually impossible to find a vaccine source in Northern VA... Trust that your sitter has received her Covid19 vaccination.
.
Keni such a lovely rendering of this enchanting ma... (show quote)


Thomas I got such a kick out you referring to my model as Princess. She is my aunt and she is the definition of a prim and proper. She has taught 1st grade for over 50 years and still "dresses" every day to the nines. The outfit she is wearing is what she wore to school. She has no plans for retiring any time soon either. She loves "her babies" and has such a generous heart and beautiful soul. She is always willing to sit for me when I need a practice model.

I really appreciate all the feedback. I am aware of your experience and expertice and I was hoping you would comment. Something about her arm was bothering me but I didn't know what. Now I understand and can correct that. Tonight I am going to try it again with the light directly in front and above and try for loop lighting. If I shoot in landscape instead of portrait I can get in a little closer and not have to do as much cropping. I am shooting with a Canon Rebel T6 and a 35mm F2.0 prime lens which on this camera is equivilent to roughly a 55mm. It was shot at F5 ISO 100 SS 1/5. I think the camera angle may have added to the exagerated arm as well. I was shooting slightly above and tilted down. I am also going to try it with my 50mm 1.8. That might help reduce the distortion but the problem with that lens is how small my studio is. I would have to shoot it pretty tight since I am maxed out on how far back I can go. That is one of the reasons why I decided to use the 35mm.

Do you recommend shooting tethered to a laptop? I have the setup to do that. I have also had my first covid vaccine and going for my second this Saturday. Texas allows those of us under 65 years old to get our vaccines if we have an underlying medical condition, which I do. My friend has also had her vaccine as well but I will wear a mask despite our &*^# Govenor lifting all restrictions in Texas. Thanks again for your input.

Reply
Mar 4, 2021 12:02:20   #
MrT Loc: Gilbert, AZ
 
I would put up a hair light to give separation between her and the background. It is to dark for me but I like it otherwise. As Thomas pointed out very elegant looking. I am normally a color guy. I need to rethink that. Good luck and have fun.

Reply
Mar 4, 2021 12:03:16   #
kenievans Loc: Dallas
 
charlienow wrote:
Keni. I like the portrait although it is way to dark for my taste. For my taste I like what Robert jerk did.

Fergmark brought out the skin tones rather nicely.

And of course Thomas did an excellent rendering.

Good luck. And I am looking forward to seeing your friends portrait posted

Chuck


Thank you Chuck. I am just a hobbiest but I want to do this right for my friend and her family. I will post the results after the shoot next week.

Reply
 
 
Mar 4, 2021 12:13:22   #
kenievans Loc: Dallas
 
MrT wrote:
I would put up a hair light to give separation between her and the background. It is to dark for me but I like it otherwise. As Thomas pointed out very elegant looking. I am normally a color guy. I need to rethink that. Good luck and have fun.


Thank you MrT. Although my model here has light hair, my friend has dark hair. I think a hair light is a good idea for her with the black backround.

Reply
Mar 4, 2021 12:40:21   #
MrT Loc: Gilbert, AZ
 
A hair light would also put a little light on the shoulders and arm giving a little separation there too. Good luck.

Reply
Mar 4, 2021 15:22:59   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
charlienow wrote:
Keni. I like the portrait although it is way to dark for my taste. For my taste I like what Robert jerk did.

Fergmark brought out the skin tones rather nicely.

And of course Thomas did an excellent rendering.

Good luck. And I am looking forward to seeing your friends portrait posted

Chuck


I will assume that on my name it is a case "Spell Checker Strikes Again". On my computers I have the spell check dictionary set to acknowledge that my middle name is indeed "Jerl" and not "jerk". A teacher I used to work with was married to someone from Sweden and at a faculty get-together she told me it is a Norse name, their version of Earl and in Scandinavia that is actually the word for a "Chief" or leader of a large clan or tribe. However, my wife says that at times spell checker seems to be a good judge of character.
My father (Sr) is the only "Jerl" I (Jr) ever ran into in person until I moved here almost 20 years ago, a few miles away in Riverside CA there is a large auto repair place by the freeway "Jerl's Muffler and Brakes".

Reply
Mar 4, 2021 16:03:17   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
kenievans wrote:
... but I will wear a mask despite our &*^# Governor lifting all restrictions in Texas. Thanks again for your input.


Keni, I for one approve of the restriction lifting - note just because they are not now telling people they "must" follow the protocols doesn't mean the more intelligent and prudent "won't" follow them on their own.
Think of it as an "IQ" test or Darwin at work. Survival of the fittest/most intelligent. I for one believe that one of the main reasons for there seeming to be a larger % of "stupid" people today is that modern society protects them from fatal results of their stupidity and keeps alive those who in the past would have been killed off by Darwin's Law so they survive long enough to produce more of their kind.

50 years teaching 1st Grade - tell your Aunt I salute her! That is truly outstanding.

I thought my 35 years of Jr & Sr High was pretty good. Actually I had planned to teach about 10 years longer until our youngest graduated from college but health problems hit and since I was already at the top of the scale for retirement pension my wife (Surgical Nurse/OR Charge Nurse) spent 6 months talking me into retirement.

I was resisting but one day in April on the way to work I got sick and had to pull over on the side of the road for 5 minutes. (diabetes and stress) I got to the High School and walked into the office to pick up my mail and sign in. The Principal was behind the counter so as I signed the book I looked at him and told him I had decided to retire the last day of the semester (June 29). He smiled, shook my hand and told the office manager to put the paperwork in my mail box so I could fill it out later that day.

All day I told my students what I had decided and just kept feeling less stress and better as the day went by. Some of them got together and the next day told me that in spite of the rules the last day was going to be an all day pot-luck and retirement party with all their friends who had been my students being invited also. Even some who had graduated showed up. And that last day a group stayed when school ended at lunch, helped take all my pictures off the wall, pack my stuff and load my SUV. When I drove off they were sitting on the steps finishing off the food left from the day.
After almost 14 years I still miss the students and teaching history - not the commute, paperwork or faculty meetings. Just teaching the students and telling them stories. I spell it history and was very good at making it a story, my students and even my wife told me so. Once she had a Candy Stripper who was one of my students and said she was having trouble in my class, it was "too hard". My wife told her I was her husband and "Just ask him about what you don't understand and then listen to his stories. You will understand it when he is done."

Sorry to ramble so long, today is one of those days I really miss being in front of a class and telling stories about history.

Reply
 
 
Mar 4, 2021 17:56:19   #
kenievans Loc: Dallas
 
robertjerl wrote:
Keni, I for one approve of the restriction lifting - note just because they are not now telling people they "must" follow the protocols doesn't mean the more intelligent and prudent "won't" follow them on their own.
Think of it as an "IQ" test or Darwin at work. Survival of the fittest/most intelligent. I for one believe that one of the main reasons for there seeming to be a larger % of "stupid" people today is that modern society protects them from fatal results of their stupidity and keeps alive those who in the past would have been killed off by Darwin's Law so they survive long enough to produce more of their kind.

50 years teaching 1st Grade - tell your Aunt I salute her! That is truly outstanding.

I thought my 35 years of Jr & Sr High was pretty good. Actually I had planned to teach about 10 years longer until our youngest graduated from college but health problems hit and since I was already at the top of the scale for retirement pension my wife (Surgical Nurse/OR Charge Nurse) spent 6 months talking me into retirement.

I was resisting but one day in April on the way to work I got sick and had to pull over on the side of the road for 5 minutes. (diabetes and stress) I got to the High School and walked into the office to pick up my mail and sign in. The Principal was behind the counter so as I signed the book I looked at him and told him I had decided to retire the last day of the semester (June 29). He smiled, shook my hand and told the office manager to put the paperwork in my mail box so I could fill it out later that day.

All day I told my students what I had decided and just kept feeling less stress and better as the day went by. Some of them got together and the next day told me that in spite of the rules the last day was going to be an all day pot-luck and retirement party with all their friends who had been my students being invited also. Even some who had graduated showed up. And that last day a group stayed when school ended at lunch, helped take all my pictures off the wall, pack my stuff and load my SUV. When I drove off they were sitting on the steps finishing off the food left from the day.
After almost 14 years I still miss the students and teaching history - not the commute, paperwork or faculty meetings. Just teaching the students and telling them stories. I spell it history and was very good at making it a story, my students and even my wife told me so. Once she had a Candy Stripper who was one of my students and said she was having trouble in my class, it was "too hard". My wife told her I was her husband and "Just ask him about what you don't understand and then listen to his stories. You will understand it when he is done."

Sorry to ramble so long, today is one of those days I really miss being in front of a class and telling stories about history.
Keni, I for one approve of the restriction lifting... (show quote)


Robert thank you for sharing your story and I understand. My aunt loves teaching her babies but the system and frustration dealing with the parents, especially when they had to switch to online classes, has been stressful for her as well. At the beginning of the school year all of her kids were at home and she was teaching virtually with little to know direction from the district. They had to figure it out on their own. She works in a low income area were many of the parents speak little to no english, don't have computers and/or they have to work and can't or won't supervise or push the kids to pay attention. Now part of her kids are in class and part of them are online at the same time. She was not very "technically" inclined. She just got her first smart phone a couple of years ago and only because her old flip phone finally died but she has worked hard this past year to get up to speed on the technology. I know she thought very seriously about retiring this year but she hung in there. She will be 74 in a couple of months. She is my hero.

Reply
Mar 4, 2021 18:54:06   #
charlienow Loc: Hershey, PA
 
robertjerl wrote:
I will assume that on my name it is a case "Spell Checker Strikes Again". On my computers I have the spell check dictionary set to acknowledge that my middle name is indeed "Jerl" and not "jerk". A teacher I used to work with was married to someone from Sweden and at a faculty get-together she told me it is a Norse name, their version of Earl and in Scandinavia that is actually the word for a "Chief" or leader of a large clan or tribe. However, my wife says that at times spell checker seems to be a good judge of character.
My father (Sr) is the only "Jerl" I (Jr) ever ran into in person until I moved here almost 20 years ago, a few miles away in Riverside CA there is a large auto repair place by the freeway "Jerl's Muffler and Brakes".
img src="https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/images/s... (show quote)


Oops. Sorry about spell check. Glad you understand, hopefully.

Chuck

Reply
Mar 4, 2021 19:03:32   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
charlienow wrote:
Oops. Sorry about spell check. Glad you understand, hopefully.

Chuck


Oh, I understand completely - ever since the 90's when I got my first computer spell check wanted to change my name to "Jerk". When Word got the ability to customize the spelling dictionary I set it up to leave my middle name alone. But except for those of us (not very many) with the name Jerl it is not something anyone else could be expected to know about. In fact UHH's checker has it underlined in red on this.

Reply
Mar 4, 2021 19:11:08   #
kenievans Loc: Dallas
 
So today I changed to my 55mm lens and used loop lighting (main light almost directly in front and overhead) with a backlight. Not as dramatic as yesterday with the Rembrandt lighting but more flattering I think and hopefully not too dark with just a little bit of shadow on the right side of the face to give it some depth and interest. I just wished she would have smiled!


(Download)

Reply
 
 
Mar 4, 2021 22:10:00   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
You are experimenting and learning. Keep it up.

As to the smile bit. I understand that. Some days are like that, esp. if she has some in class and some on Zoom at the same time. Even the little ones can sometimes get to you. A friend who teaches K and 1st grade said she loves them to Heaven but they can be like hyper baby bunnies. Put one in a seat and on task and by the time you get to the other end of the table the first one is bouncing around again. And how do you handle that on zoom????????

Our daughter tried teaching as a day-to-day and long term sub during the 1 1/2 years between Pre-med and Medical school. At the end of her first week (5th graders) she walked in the kitchen looking like she had been hit by a tornado while in a hurricane, looked at me, "How in the name of God did YOU make it 35 years without committing mass murder?" - Uh, I can have a bit of a temper and can be "grumpy" at times. The kids called me Ol' Griz or Grizzly Bear.

Our oldest son tried teaching for a while also. He is Army Reserve Civil Affairs (closing in on 20 years total service), an Iraqi War vet as a combat engineer, part time Red Cross and a member of a volunteer disaster response organization called Team Rubicon. He did only Jr and Sr High and his verdict was "I would rather run heavy equipment, it doesn't talk back and the pay is better."

He and his sister each spent a week in Houston after Harvey as part of a "tribe" from Team Rubicon. He worked with a Corps of Engineers Colonel to map and plan the response and she was part of a "tribe" that got a retirement home up and running again as well as helping care for the residents while doing it.

There I go "bloviating" again. I guess I am maybe too proud of my family: Me various jobs, veteran and teacher for 35 years; wife OR Tech, Surgical RN, OR Charge Nurse, Sp. Olympic volunteer (our middle child is cognitively impaired=mental age of 5); oldest son, Army Reserve, veteran, licensed mediator and disaster response logistics specialist with Red Cross and Team Rubicon; Daughter (our baby) 3rd year medical student who wants to be a reconstructive orthopedic surgeon and volunteer with Team Rubicon - Covid-19 just changed her class from Class of 22 to Class of 23 - she filled in the slack time by working on research at the medical school labs and got rated "Top 1%" by the head of research and is getting her name on her second published medical research paper as an assistant/co-author to the MD doing the paper. She did one through UCLA/Kaiser Permanente with a surgeon my wife used to work with during her year "Off" between Pre-Med and Medical School.

I think I will watch the news now and stop writing essays on UHH.

Reply
Mar 5, 2021 00:21:41   #
flip1948 Loc: Hamden, CT
 
kenievans wrote:
So today I changed to my 55mm lens and used loop lighting (main light almost directly in front and overhead) with a backlight. Not as dramatic as yesterday with the Rembrandt lighting but more flattering I think and hopefully not too dark with just a little bit of shadow on the right side of the face to give it some depth and interest. I just wished she would have smiled!

You're definitely headed in the right direction. However, I feel there was too much empty space above the head so I tried a crop. I also felt a bit of added contrast would add some "pop". I also sharpened just a tad and this is what it looks like. I included the download in case you wanted to keep it.


(Download)

Reply
Mar 5, 2021 09:28:20   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
Keri your second iteration is superb! Love it...
The 50mm on your T6 yields a 88mm FL which is a "classic" range for portraiture...

Loving the wardrobe change which imparts an aura of dignified noble grace...
The knitwear and blouse are a perfect touch! Along with the teardrop pearl ear decor...

My compliments for the elegant hair styling... Which you have illuminated wonderfully!
Beautifully done Keni... Second time is a charm... I wouldn't change a thing, perfect as is...

Looking forward to more of your stellar portraiture Keni
Stay safe and enjoy...

Reply
Mar 12, 2021 16:51:22   #
kenievans Loc: Dallas
 
Thank you all for your assistanced with these. Here are three of the photos of my friend. Please view them in download. She has not seen them yet so I can still make changes if needed. I know they are not sharp. As I mentioned she has been very ill and it has taken its tole. I used a lot of clarity reduction and some healing. She also wants them printed on canvas. I promised her I would show her at her best while remaining true to who she is. Your comments would be very much appreciated.


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
People Photography
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.