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Film vs Digital
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Mar 3, 2021 17:27:34   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
"burkphoto" I like your input. I do not have the same background but it makes sense and is the way I feel.

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Mar 3, 2021 18:05:46   #
reverand
 
Well, yes and no. I doubt that the technology 100 years from now will be able to read today's digital cards. Do you really think whatever Photoshop is in 100 years that it will be compatible with the Photoshop of today? And then there are the card readers.

However, negatives properly stored can last for 100 years. Of course, papers have changed, so the prints aren't identical to the originals. But I think the Ansel Adams estate is still making prints from his negatives. Also, he willed some of his negatives to the University of Arizona, which has made duplicates, from which students can learn to print.

I brought to class a first edition of Dryden's complete Virgil (1687). I passed it around, and I asked students to read from it, which they did with no problem. I then held up a 5 1/8th inch floppy disk, which was supposed to replace the book. Then a 3 1/4 inch disk that replaced the floppy disk. You can't read either one of them. But you can still read the book.

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Mar 3, 2021 18:07:15   #
Margar Loc: Mass
 
Have not used film in so many many years, then went out and purchased a Leica M7, yes film camera... terrific piece of equipment, used it for two months and now back on my camera display shelf and back to digital and will not look back....enjoyed the change for a while, nothing will replace digital....

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Mar 3, 2021 19:00:35   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
reverand wrote:
Well, yes and no. I doubt that the technology 100 years from now will be able to read today's digital cards. Do you really think whatever Photoshop is in 100 years that it will be compatible with the Photoshop of today? And then there are the card readers.

However, negatives properly stored can last for 100 years. Of course, papers have changed, so the prints aren't identical to the originals. But I think the Ansel Adams estate is still making prints from his negatives. Also, he willed some of his negatives to the University of Arizona, which has made duplicates, from which students can learn to print.

I brought to class a first edition of Dryden's complete Virgil (1687). I passed it around, and I asked students to read from it, which they did with no problem. I then held up a 5 1/8th inch floppy disk, which was supposed to replace the book. Then a 3 1/4 inch disk that replaced the floppy disk. You can't read either one of them. But you can still read the book.
Well, yes and no. I doubt that the technology 100 ... (show quote)


As technology evolves that doesn’t mean older technology can’t be duplicated. You can buy external drives for both 5 1/4” and 3 1/2” floppies that connect by USB. As for Photoshop, it’s 31 years old and the newest version can still open and work with files created in the first version.

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Mar 3, 2021 19:08:52   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
On the other hand digital images are often seen by exponentially more people than most printed images. Even most images that are printed now started as digital. And while you may have photos that are 100 years old, most of them are seriously degraded. 100 years from now you could print a digital image and it’ll look exactly like it does today.


All images will degrade if not stored properly. I presume that when you say "100 years from now you could print a digital image and it'll look exactly like it does today" that you mean printing from today's storage devices. I wonder if this will be possible in the future. The CD, DVD, sd card, thumb drive, and perhaps even hard drives and the cloud will be the floppy discs of the future. If a hundred years from now, my future self were to see a storage device for sale, I'd probably wonder what it was and if I did know, the equipment needed to print images from would no longer be available. It is true that more digital images are made and seen than print images. It is also true that more images languish in storage without being printed; images that could be meaningful to individuals and to the cultural in general. I guess I am saying that many fine images will never escape being in storage devices to see the light of day and that is sad.

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Mar 3, 2021 19:11:52   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
reverand wrote:
Well, yes and no. I doubt that the technology 100 years from now will be able to read today's digital cards. Do you really think whatever Photoshop is in 100 years that it will be compatible with the Photoshop of today? And then there are the card readers.

However, negatives properly stored can last for 100 years. Of course, papers have changed, so the prints aren't identical to the originals. But I think the Ansel Adams estate is still making prints from his negatives. Also, he willed some of his negatives to the University of Arizona, which has made duplicates, from which students can learn to print.

I brought to class a first edition of Dryden's complete Virgil (1687). I passed it around, and I asked students to read from it, which they did with no problem. I then held up a 5 1/8th inch floppy disk, which was supposed to replace the book. Then a 3 1/4 inch disk that replaced the floppy disk. You can't read either one of them. But you can still read the book.
Well, yes and no. I doubt that the technology 100 ... (show quote)


It's called death by attrition.
You didn't mention 8" floppies or RK05 hard platters.

Printed books are not the same as electronic media. Both are communications media though.
Apples and asparagus, both are food.

And in 100 years, it won't matter to any of us.

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Mar 3, 2021 20:00:23   #
bdk Loc: Sanibel Fl.
 
My film Nikon is sitting on a shelf looking pretty , its been there for years and will remain there.

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Mar 3, 2021 20:41:29   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
taxslave wrote:
I started in photography in 1972 with a Pentax Spotmatic II and a Super Takumar 50mm f1.4. I took thousands of photos with this rig along with a Pentax 35mm wide angle and a Lentar Zoom lens. I went digital 15 years ago buying a Canon XT 8 megapixel body and some kind of zoom lens that I do not remember. Currently I have a Canon 90d with a 24-105L. I also have a couple other lenses to fill in the focal lengths before and after that lens.

Digital photography is great - instant viewing of the image to show composition, sharpness, exposure and DOF. But the thing I love most about digital photography is the ability to reset ISO on the go. In the old film days a roll of film had a given ISO (ASA in those days) and you could not change it until the roll of film was complete. And of course the film types of different ISO’s were limited - 25, 64, 100, 125 speeds were common. TriX which was B&W was 400. These limited ISO’s are the reason most cameras came with a prime lens with a large aperture, f1.4 -2.0 were very common. You could push some films to 1000 if you needed to but then you experienced lots of noise. Today you can set the ISO as high as 3000-4000 without a significant amount of noise. I’ve heard of some people using ISO 10,000 and lowering noise in post. What did we do in the old days when we had 3 exposures left on the roll and the sun was fading? We did not get the shot.

I understand 35mm film photography is making a comeback. I don’t understand that. I will never go back. How about you?
I started in photography in 1972 with a Pentax Spo... (show quote)


Can’t understand that either. Went digital in 2005 after shooting film for three miserable decades. Will never ever go back. Have four DSLRs and a P&S. All get used regularly with more joy than the film cameras ever provided.

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Mar 3, 2021 21:39:20   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
RodeoMan wrote:
All images will degrade if not stored properly. I presume that when you say "100 years from now you could print a digital image and it'll look exactly like it does today" that you mean printing from today's storage devices. I wonder if this will be possible in the future. The CD, DVD, sd card, thumb drive, and perhaps even hard drives and the cloud will be the floppy discs of the future. If a hundred years from now, my future self were to see a storage device for sale, I'd probably wonder what it was and if I did know, the equipment needed to print images from would no longer be available. It is true that more digital images are made and seen than print images. It is also true that more images languish in storage without being printed; images that could be meaningful to individuals and to the cultural in general. I guess I am saying that many fine images will never escape being in storage devices to see the light of day and that is sad.
All images will degrade if not stored properly. I... (show quote)


So you actually think that 100 years from now we’ll lack the knowledge to access digital data we know how to access now?

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Mar 3, 2021 21:48:35   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
In 100 years the cameras will be the size of a pen and we will print 6X6's. That is 4Ft X 6 Ft. The longer the pen the bigger the lens.

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Mar 3, 2021 22:55:24   #
photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA
 
I started with film in 1973 with a Petri FTII; when that camera died I bought my Pentax. The day I shot my first digital photo was my day of no return. Since then I "graduated" to shooting RAW, I've learned to use my Photoshop Elements for processing. In the "old days" I bulk loaded and processed my own black and white film. Do I miss the smell of developer and fixer and stop bath? Nope!

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Mar 3, 2021 23:09:33   #
rlscholl Loc: California
 
I think the answer is”it depends”. Similar to others, I started with film, first “medium format”roll film, then b & w 35mm, & spent a lot of time in darkrooms. Then color slide film (almost exclusively Kodachrome,) with no printing . Then a brief time printing with Cibachrome. Although I was not an early adopter, I eventually went digital with full frameDSLRs, and never regretted it. (I have noticed, though, that my techniques tend to reflect habits I acquired prior to adopting digital).
However, when I started, the most spectacular photographs I recall were prints made using 5x7 and 8 x 10 view cameras. I made the early decision to recognize that I wasn’t willing to take the time and effort to pursue that type of photography. But, neither have I ever produced a print ( b&w or especially color) that were as sharp or had the “pop” that my father’s friends regularly produced. Had I taken that path, I know of no digital alternative remotely affordable to a hobbyist, so suspect I would still be using film, or have moved to a different hobby.

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Mar 4, 2021 02:03:18   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
So you actually think that 100 years from now we’ll lack the knowledge to access digital data we know how to access now?


Remember that we are talking about regular folks and not trained professionals at museums, universities or other facilities with specialized equipment for retrieving images from ancient media. Yes the knowledge will be there and I would think some version of the equipment also, but I don't think this will be available to the average person but only to professionals. How long has the floppy disk been gone? I don't have a way to access the old floppies I have, you might have, but I doubt if most people do. Lets say that the floppy disk has been discontinued for thirty years, now instead of going into the future a hundred years, lets just go seventy years. Where would you go to find someone to extract the data on those floppies and how much would that cost?
I assume (and hope) that your family is important to you. Now to continue that thought, lets say that you have made a significant number of images of your family in two ways. In the first situation, all the images are on storage devices and in the second situation, the images have been printed and are paper. The printed images and the images stored in various digital storage devices will each go in to their respective "shoe boxes" to be found by a member of your family in the distant future. Now put yourself in the shoes of that far in the future Superfly family member, if you say that, instead of the paper images, you would be happier to find that shoe box of SD cards, CD's, DVD's and etc and that you believe that these could be easily converted to print form, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks.

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Mar 4, 2021 06:39:18   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
I tried to get back into film a couple years ago with a few of my OM cameras I still have (4T, 2n, 2S) but having to wait for processing (no more "one hour" places remember those???!!) as well as the high costs per frame compared to digital was a deal breaker for me. The equipment is cheap now even for medium format, but the media costs can bankrupt you.

The fossil club -
Film
Typewriters
Analog TV
Cable TV (soon)
Flip Phones
Zune

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Mar 4, 2021 07:55:47   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
rlscholl wrote:
I think the answer is ”it depends”. ...
...
...

Yes, it's an individual volition.
People have their own reasons for their decision as to which method to use.
Neither is right nor wrong.
It's just what they want to do.

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