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Mar 4, 2021 20:36:15   #
miteehigh Loc: Arizona
 
You might want to reread what I said. Did you miss the part I said "single exposure"?

The only present day digital that can approach 4X5 is the two Leica 45 MP cameras, the Canon R5 and any other 45 MP cameras.

Of course lenses make a difference.

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Mar 4, 2021 21:55:32   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
pendennis wrote:
As mentioned in an earlier post, there are certain media which contain data, but are not readily (read economically) readable. At my former employer, we devote large areas of climate controlled rooms and vaults, to protect corporate documents, and not just the charter and others. We have millions of punched cards, tapes, discs, floppies, etc., which require storage for the life of the company.

Now, the problem comes with the need for appropriate working hardware (magnetic and paper tape, disc, and card readers). Now, add to that the operating systems which were used to write that data. Are the original operating systems even recoverable, and at what cost?

Just askin'.
As mentioned in an earlier post, there are certain... (show quote)


As someone that worked in the field you should know better. We’re not talking about obscure or outdated proprietary operating systems, these are industry standard file types that have been around for over 30 years. We’re talking about devices that are readily available and inexpensive. Even then how many people are still storing photos on floppy disks? I think the chances of getting good images from digital media 100 years from now much better than finding shoeboxes of non-archival prints. Like I said earlier, many people with old prints and negatives are scanning and digitizing them for archival storage.

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Mar 4, 2021 22:04:41   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
miteehigh wrote:
I wish I had the digital images I have lost due to confiscation of external hard drives by TSA agents and outright HD failures. Granted digital is far more convenient. In fact a fair number of fine art photographers have been outputting digitally printed negatives and then contact printing those negatives in platinum/paladium, carbon, and other historic processes. Why would they do that? Because of several reasons. The first and foremost is the historic process is head and shoulders above anything that can be a digital print. Second is the permanence of the final print. Third is the much higher price that a print produced in that way commands. In the final analysis it is horses for courses.
I wish I had the digital images I have lost due to... (show quote)


If you lost images on hard drives it’s because you didn’t have a very good recovery plan. I get the craft of darkroom processes and why people still do them. But there are still many more “fine art” photographers that shoot digital and use ink jet printers that sell their prints for just as much. None of this applies to most users on here. I get why some people still love to shoot film but I also get why most don’t.

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Mar 4, 2021 22:35:55   #
Boris77
 
taxslave wrote:
I started in photography in 1972 with a Pentax Spotmatic II and a Super Takumar 50mm f1.4. I took thousands of photos with this rig along with a Pentax 35mm wide angle and a Lentar Zoom lens. I went digital 15 years ago buying a Canon XT 8 megapixel body and some kind of zoom lens that I do not remember. Currently I have a Canon 90d with a 24-105L. I also have a couple other lenses to fill in the focal lengths before and after that lens.

Digital photography is great - instant viewing of the image to show composition, sharpness, exposure and DOF. But the thing I love most about digital photography is the ability to reset ISO on the go. In the old film days a roll of film had a given ISO (ASA in those days) and you could not change it until the roll of film was complete. And of course the film types of different ISO’s were limited - 25, 64, 100, 125 speeds were common. TriX which was B&W was 400. These limited ISO’s are the reason most cameras came with a prime lens with a large aperture, f1.4 -2.0 were very common. You could push some films to 1000 if you needed to but then you experienced lots of noise. Today you can set the ISO as high as 3000-4000 without a significant amount of noise. I’ve heard of some people using ISO 10,000 and lowering noise in post. What did we do in the old days when we had 3 exposures left on the roll and the sun was fading? We did not get the shot.

I understand 35mm film photography is making a comeback. I don’t understand that. I will never go back. How about you?
I started in photography in 1972 with a Pentax Spo... (show quote)


I am still praying for the moment that I can take digital (read instant) pictures with my old film cameras. They are beautiful works of craftmanship. I would give up some quality for the privilege, but not convenience.
Ain't gonna hapen cause ther ain't no $$ in it. Boris

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Mar 4, 2021 23:27:10   #
1grumpybear
 
miteehigh wrote:
You might want to reread what I said. Did you miss the part I said "single exposure"?

The only present day digital that can approach 4X5 is the two Leica 45 MP cameras, the Canon R5 and any other 45 MP cameras.

Of course lenses make a difference.


I think you might want to read every thing I had written. I wrote "With a single exposure I would put my Nikon D850 up against any contact film print." The Nikon D850 is 45.7 MP and with their high end lens the detail is there.

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Mar 5, 2021 11:29:37   #
miteehigh Loc: Arizona
 
There is no way a 45 MP camera can do what a 8X10 contact print, let alone a 12X20 contact print. Your camera is undoubtedly a fine camera but facts are facts. Besides in your earlier comment identified a 12.8 mp camera. I think you should revisit not only resolution but also tonality comparisons.

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Mar 5, 2021 12:05:48   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
miteehigh wrote:
There is no way a 45 MP camera can do what a 8X10 contact print, let alone a 12X20 contact print. Your camera is undoubtedly a fine camera but facts are facts. Besides in your earlier comment identified a 12.8 mp camera. I think you should revisit not only resolution but also tonality comparisons.


In his defense he mentioned doing one panorama with a 12.4mp camera, but in both prior posts he mentioned using a D850. And maybe it’s true that no digital can give you the results you’d get from a 12x20 view camera. I’ve used an 8x10 view camera and enjoyed it, but it’s a crazy comparison. It’s totally impractical for 99.99% of photography.

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Mar 5, 2021 12:19:05   #
kenArchi Loc: Seal Beach, CA
 
I see better pictures from my little canon p&s elph 360hs than from my fuzzy old film pictures.

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Mar 5, 2021 15:38:12   #
DHenard Loc: Northeast Tennessee
 
I remember shooting with film cameras back in high school in the early 90's. Going on vacation trips and all I had was 5 or 6 rolls of film since that was what I could afford especially considering how much it cost to get it processed. I missed many a great shots but I was also more purposeful in what I shot since I limited to how many shots I could take. I am not a professional and it sometimes takes some experimitation to get what I want. With film, experimitation can get expensive and time consuming.With digital, I can shoot a scene several different ways until I get what I am looking for. Each shot also has all the shooting details embedded in it so that also is a plus. With digital I can take dozens or hundreds of shots from different angles, iso's, etc. It doesn't really cost anything to take a picture. Personally, I will never shoot film again.

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Mar 5, 2021 16:04:37   #
1grumpybear
 
miteehigh wrote:
There is no way a 45 MP camera can do what a 8X10 contact print, let alone a 12X20 contact print. Your camera is undoubtedly a fine camera but facts are facts. Besides in your earlier comment identified a 12.8 mp camera. I think you should revisit not only resolution but also tonality comparisons.


It looks like you live here in Arizona. If you do lets have photo contest. We shoot the same subject at the same time. Are you familiar with Tempe Camera and if you are do you know Guy or the owner Joe. We can have them judge our pictures. I live in south Tempe. You up for a one on one.

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Mar 5, 2021 17:51:41   #
miteehigh Loc: Arizona
 
Well, I have a better idea. Since your suggestion involves a subjective determination you must surely understand such an evaluation proves nothing.

I do have a fact based determination to offer. I am in favor of you and I photography a single exposure of a resolution target. That way we can absolutely determine the best resolving ability of your camera and my camera and lens. Additionally we both photograph a single exposure of 28 step Stouffer tablet. That would clearly and factually determine the dynamic range of both formats... No individual assessments, no stitched photographs. You come prepared with the EXIF data to support your single exposure and I provide the camera negative to support my evidence. I'll even give you a break and only use 5X7 format.

Since you feel so strongly about this, let's attach a wager (make it worth my while),. We'll let Joe hold the wagers. What do you say? Are you up for it?

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Mar 5, 2021 18:31:39   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
miteehigh wrote:
Well, I have a better idea. Since your suggestion involves a subjective determination you must surely understand such an evaluation proves nothing.

I do have a fact based determination to offer. I am in favor of you and I photography a single exposure of a resolution target. That way we can absolutely determine the best resolving ability of your camera and my camera and lens. Additionally we both photograph a single exposure of 28 step Stouffer tablet. That would clearly and factually determine the dynamic range of both formats... No individual assessments, no stitched photographs. You come prepared with the EXIF data to support your single exposure and I provide the camera negative to support my evidence. I'll even give you a break and only use 5X7 format.

Since you feel so strongly about this, let's attach a wager (make it worth my while),. We'll let Joe hold the wagers. What do you say? Are you up for it?
Well, I have a better idea. Since your suggestion ... (show quote)


Mitee and Grumpy, you guys sure work to take the joy out of our hobby.

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Mar 5, 2021 21:58:52   #
hrblaine
 
No going back for me, digital is so easy compared to film (imho). I can't even imagine setting up a darkroom!

Harry

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Mar 6, 2021 08:34:28   #
Doc Mck Loc: Terrell,Texas
 
For some reason my grand daughter has an interest in film. I gave her my Minolta and Canon pocket camera, along with a dslr, one of the first Rebel Models and bought all upgraded equipment. I also gave her 20+ rolls of 35 mm Kodachrome film iso 400. Didn’t ask why she has interest in film. Just glad she has interest in photography.

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Mar 6, 2021 08:43:24   #
BigDaddy Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
Doc Mck wrote:
For some reason my grand daughter has an interest in film. I gave her my Minolta and Canon pocket camera, along with a dslr, one of the first Rebel Models and bought all upgraded equipment. I also gave her 20+ rolls of 35 mm Kodachrome film iso 400. Didn’t ask why she has interest in film. Just glad she has interest in photography.

At the very least it should give her a profound appreciation of digital photography.

Wait 'till she see's what hoops she must jump through to edit them and get them displayed on her 55" 4k TV...😂

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