David Martin Loc: Cary, NC

Wrong.
The attending physician determines the cause of death. I know this having had to fill out a number of death certificates over the years.

Coroners only determine cause of death when there is no attending physician, the patient is in hospital less than 24 hours, cases of homicide, death resulting from a crime, or the death is unusual or unexpected. There are about 25 situations where coroners are called in. Look it up.


The death certificate shows the primary cause of death, plus contributing factors and the approximate date of onset of each. Hospitals are indeed paid based on DRGs, or Diagnosis-Related Groups, which are determined by the primary illness which necessitated hospitalization, with adjustments made for severity of illness and secondary illnesses. If the cause of death matches the DRG, then indeed the hospital is reimbursed according to the cause of death. Look it up!

And yes, the CARES (Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security) Act of 2020 provides higher levels of Medicare reimbursement to hospitals for Covid patients. Look it up!

In which case I suggest you speak with him again so he can set you straight. Ask him who signs death certificates, what DRGs are, and what the CARES act provided.

No argument there.

Triple G

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/coding-and-reporting.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/training/improving_cause_of_death_reporting/

If, but for Covid, would they have died? That’s the key question.

ricardo00

I am sure this is more detailed than you (or almost anyone else on this board) wants to know, but some idea of the complexity of the immune response to a vaccine was just reported for the COVID adenoviral vaccines (Johnson and Johnson, Astra Zeneca, the Russian Sputnik, etc):

Translating viral vaccines into immunity

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6528/460

Science 29 Jan 2021:
Vol. 371, Issue 6528, pp. 460-461
DOI: 10.1126/science.abf8121

old poet

Be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem. Get the vsccine and don't be a spreader who may kill people such as my cousin who died from COVID. I had my second shot, no serious side effects. I am a retired biology professor who taught microbiology among other sciences.

old poet

There are occasional deaths following the vaccine, but not because of the vaccine. Many in group 1A were elderly, infirmed, in nursing homes, many had preexisting conditions. They were in the highest risk category and would likely have died anyway if not sooner regardless of the inoculation. Read this!
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/post-vaccination-deaths-dont-covid-19-vaccine-deadly/story?id=75524209

old poet

Well said!

IDguy Loc: Idaho

Not really interested in the crazy people but just for fun did a little math.

At the moment in the US 474,000 unvaccinated people have died from covid. Out of about 330,000,000. That is a death rate of 0.13%.

Although none of the 142 claimed deaths after vaccination were not from the vaccination, even if they were, given the 48,000,000 vaccinations thus far in the US, that is a death rate of 0.000003%.

This you are 43,000 times more likely to die by remaining unvaccinated.

Have at it!

IDguy Loc: Idaho

Sorry, you are wrong on both counts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_of_death

The modest payments to hospitals are to help them survive and aren’t related to deaths from covid. They relate to total patients treated. Look it up.

“HHS is allocating funding to hospitals that have a high number of confirmed COVID-19 positive inpatient admissions.”

David Martin Loc: Cary, NC

Wikipedia is hardly an authority on who determines cause of death. Cause of death might be determined by a medical examiner (or coroner), but most often by the attending physician, or a pathologist who performs autopsy. Medical examiners and coroners are usually involved in deaths associated with a crime, suicide, unexpected death, sometimes hospital deaths less than 24 hours after admission (though medical examiners usually decline to intervene in these unless there are unusual circumstances.)

For hospitalized patients, "In all cases, the attending physician is responsible for certifying the cause of death." -- Physicians' Handbook on Medical Certification of Death
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_cod.pdf

The added payment to hospitals is indeed related to all COVID patients and not just COVID deaths:

Pertinent quotes from the CARES act:

SEC. 4409. MEDICARE HOSPITAL INPATIENT PROSPECTIVE PAYMENT SYSTEM ADD-ON PAYMENT FOR COVID–19 PATIENTS DURING EMERGENCY PERIOD.

"(iv) (I) For discharges occurring during the emergency period described in section 1135(g)(1)(B), in the case of a discharge that has a principal or secondary diagnosis of COVID–19, the Secretary shall increase the weighting factor for each diagnosis-related group (with such a principal or secondary diagnosis) by 15 percent."
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548/text#toc-idd8192958b0bc4714a9862fa7d03cd70e

Listing COVID among the discharge diagnoses (primary diagnosis, secondary diagnoses, and any contributing factors) is the responsibility of the attending physician. In the hospital record and the death certificate.

ricardo00

Another way to play with numbers, every day in the US about 8,000 people die (this was pre-COVID, so from other causes). So if 48,000,000 people received vaccinations, one would expect about 1,000 deaths in the day after the vaccination (assuming a 1,000,000 per day were vaccinated). Also assumes I did the math correctly (would be happy to be corrected).