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Trump World Is A Cult. Can Its Followers Be Saved?
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Jan 19, 2021 14:43:03   #
Rose42
 
ken_stern wrote:
We have had two Republican presidents during this century -- One that campaigned on Lowering Taxes & did so while fighting a totally unnecessary war in the Middle East -- While denying the existence of G****l w*****g --
Another who we - thank God -- say good riddance to tomorrow who is beyond comprehension our worst President in our entire history
Without these two Republican Presidents - One a good man while the other is a total creepy looking failure of a despot --
How much better the 21st Century "could" have been

AND yes your finally right V**ers put them minority v**ed Presidents into office
We have had two Republican presidents during this ... (show quote)


If you could have any past president now who would you pick?

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Jan 19, 2021 14:58:17   #
ken_stern Loc: Yorba Linda, Ca
 
Rose42 wrote:
If you could have any past president now who would you pick?


I already did that in Nov. 2020 -- V**ed for the guy & gal who will take over tomorrow -- Sure they will make mistakes -- But they will be honest mistakes
We need & must have a two-party system to grow & maintain our Democracy ---
BUT to have that we must have Political parties that have the "BALLS" to own-up to T***H & REALITY
Not the Republican Party we now have that creates & panders to social wedge issues & false reality Science & Medical Science

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Jan 19, 2021 17:41:32   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
And the U.S. did not. The President practiced political economy on a grand scale; for example, at least in part, he forced China to discuss and move toward fairer trade activity. He brought Mexico to the table to arrange its part in controlling illegal migration. He promised Britain favorable trade relations following Brexit. He spanked Iran by vaporizing its top Muslim terrorist boss. He began rebuilding the U.S. Navy. Political historians will identify his successes and failures.

I have little doubt that but for the p******c, the President would've been re-elected.
pfrancke wrote:
One thing I would not expect is for the US to throw away a powerful leadership world role (the definition of hegemon if you will) by retreating into isolationism.

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Jan 19, 2021 17:48:07   #
pfrancke Loc: cold Maine
 
anotherview wrote:
And the U.S. did not. The President practiced political economy on a grand scale; for example, at least in part, he forced China to discuss and move toward fairer trade activity. He brought Mexico to the table to arrange its part in controlling illegal migration. He promised Britain favorable trade relations following Brexit. He spanked Iran by vaporizing its top Muslim terrorist boss. He began rebuilding the U.S. Navy. Political historians will identify his successes and failures.

I have little doubt that but for the p******c, the President would've been re-elected.
And the U.S. did not. The President practiced pol... (show quote)


I agree with you that he would have been re-elected. I would not have v**ed for him (he lies too much for me). But I think you make some fair points. Regarding foreign policy, I think Russia had him under thumb, but history will tell that story (or not) as time passes.

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Jan 19, 2021 17:50:20   #
soba1 Loc: Somewhere In So Ca
 
Rose42 wrote:
If you could have any past president now who would you pick?


JFK

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Jan 19, 2021 18:30:54   #
pfrancke Loc: cold Maine
 
soba1 wrote:
JFK


yes - a guy that was on PT 109. He served.

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Jan 19, 2021 19:06:04   #
ken_stern Loc: Yorba Linda, Ca
 
Was in the Marine Corps when JFK was Pres. --
11/22/63 a sad day for all of us --
What could have been didn't happen

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Jan 19, 2021 19:18:24   #
soba1 Loc: Somewhere In So Ca
 
JFK wasn’t c*********d and he paid for it with his life

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Jan 19, 2021 19:27:40   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
anotherview wrote:
Nope. I offer only a description of an outcome decades in the making. We might ask a defining question: Do we want a leader who pussyfoots in the presence of a countervailing international force like globalism? Or do we settle for a leader who goes along to get along?

What do we want and except from a leader of the most powerful nation the world has ever seen? In fact, an argument exists characterizing America as a hegemon, not unlike the Roman empire in some respects.

In all consideration, do we prefer a President who sits in the Oval Office awaiting the next issue to present itself like on a lazy Susan?
Or should he or she take proactive steps with a view to the future of our dear nation?
Nope. I offer only a description of an outcome de... (show quote)


Are you German? A strongman, and freedom, really don't work together so well.

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Jan 19, 2021 19:36:00   #
RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
If Trump had been re-elected, what would he have done unconstrained in a second term?



He would have pushed Pence out, installed Don Jr. as the new VP, and dismantled any opposition in the Republican-controlled Senate.

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Jan 19, 2021 19:38:44   #
RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida
 
Kraken wrote:
It’s been over a month since E******n Day, and other than surreptitiously greenlighting the t***sition to the Biden administration, neither Donald Trump nor his inner circle (nor many of his supporters) have publicly acknowledged the results of the v**e. There are a variety of narratives that Trump World™ has perpetuated to explain the loss, including v***r f***d, and followers are not only buying them, but are also spreading even more nonsensical theories online.
A relentless acceptance of blatant lies coupled with unconditional support of a leader are classic symptoms of cult-like behavior. Perhaps Sen. Bernie Sanders described it best: “The GOP has ceased to be a political party. It is now a cult.”
While some might be tempted to dismiss this rhetoric as mere hyperbole, several key aspects of cults — including a charismatic authoritarian leader and an extremist ideology — are present in Trump’s case, explains Janja Lalich, Ph.D., cult researcher, professor emerita of sociology at California State University, Chico, and author of Bounded Choice: True Believers and Charismatic Cults. And research published in the Journal of Social and Political Psychology backs up Lalich’s claims: Trump’s fear-mongering and inflammatory statements, especially toward marginalized groups, reinforces social hierarchy and skews toward authoritarianism, the study states. Lalich also says that while she doesn’t see concrete evidence of a formal indoctrination program in Trump’s supporters, she does “see the blind followership that we see in cults, and the resistance to counter-information.”
Cults, Lalich explains, thrive on enforcing a punishment-and-rewards system among members. This is evident within Trump’s circle of political loyalists (looking at you, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, and Rudy Giuliani) and the endless revolving door of White House administration members. There are rewards and recognition for those who praise him, like Kellyanne Conway, who rose to fame as the voice of “alternative facts” after leading a successful campaign for Trump. And then there are the punishments: the Apprentice-like firing of staff members who speak out against the leader in any way, and the recent police raid on the home of a scientist who published C***D numbers. Plus, Trump’s leadership enables figures like McConnell to wield their power by advancing policy in the Senate, and then sneaking in a confirmation of the next Supreme Court justice, Amy Coney Barrett, before the e******n. Lalich points out that this works in two ways for a Trump lackey like McConnell; he attains power for himself and serves the leader’s agenda.
The punishment-and-rewards system applies to Trump’s family as well. Most of his adult children, specifically Donald Jr., Eric, and Ivanka, have roles in their father’s political sphere, so there’s power they can gain from participation, along with financial gain. Nepotism seems to be a uniting thread among cult-like, authoritarian leaders; Kim Jong Un’s family in North Korea is notorious for that, says Lalich.
Beyond the inner circle of a cult, there’s what Lalich calls the “outer rung,” explaining: “They’re the very necessary supporters who lend legitimacy to the cult.” In this case, Trump’s corporate donors and Republican politicians who neither fully endorse nor disavow Trump’s tyrannical behavior, can be considered part of the outer rung; their tacit support of the cult gives them economic and political influence, according to Lalich. By refusing to condemn Trump’s authoritarianism, blatant w***e s*******y, xenophobia, misogyny, and lies, they are complicit in it.
Religion and spirituality also play an important role in Trump’s ascent to and hold on power, as well. Glorifying himself as Christ-like has become normalized; at a recent rally, Trump claimed that “only Jesus Christ is more famous than him,” and his son Eric remarked that his father has “saved Christianity”. These ideas of a leader being some kind of second-coming of a Christ figure or other prophetic figure are also typical of cultic structure, Lalich says. Trump’s loyal followers run the gamut from evangelical Christians, who seem to take comfort in the idea of him as a Christ figure, to some people who believe in New Age philosophies, who have referred to Donald Trump as a “light worker”. The New Age movement perpetuates the idea that “you create your own reality, and it doesn’t have to match anyone else’s reality,” says Dr. Lalich, which makes it easy to see why some followers would be comfortable with Trump and pro-Trump conspiracy theories. Certain factions of the New Age spiritual and wellness communities are also coming to Trump by way of conspiracy theories like Q***n (which is where Charlotte Ward’s term conspirituality comes into play). Influencers who pander to those groups, like yogi Krystal Tini, to the tune of 147,000 followers, have espoused both Q***n-related rhetoric and anti-vax and C***D-related misinformation.
This embrace of false information really does trickle down from groups that spew dangerous conspiracy theories and into the general population. Disinformation has been a central tenet to Trump’s entire campaign and presidency, and has given rise to Q***n — a cult in its own right. The Q***n conspiracy theory-turned-movement asserts that Trump is the savior who can bust the alleged liberal-sanctioned p*******e ring headquartered in a Washington, D.C., pizza shop (hence, PizzaGate). While these theories sound beyond belief to many, experts say that, for those who adhere to them, they are a way to make sense of a chaotic world. But in this search for deeper meaning, many conspiracy theorists tend to fall down a rabbit hole that’s difficult to escape.
Cult psychology is known for its “all or nothing” approach, in that there are implications if you denounce or leave the cult — a system of punishments and rewards kicks in. “Individuals who are members of cults and gangs may be completely ostracized, abused, or even k**led if they do not recite and ultimately believe racial rhetoric and ideology,” says Leela Magavi, M.D., a psychiatrist and Regional Medical Director for Community Psychiatry in Southern California. The more deeply followers get involved in the cult or conspiracy theory, the trickier it is to find their way out. That’s how they may find themselves willing to die for their leader, another terrifying aspect of cults and one apparently invoked by the Arizona Republican Party recently.
While dying for Trump is probably not on the agenda of most members of his cult, their collective fate following his e*******l loss is unclear. “If we liken it to what happens when a cult leader dies or a cult breaks up, factions will develop; some people will rally around the leader, and try to get him to run again for office, while others work on their own political ambitions,” Lalich says. Some people may still view Trump as the “second coming” and try to keep that idea alive, and other supporters will likely continue promoting the Q***n theories. There may even be some former supporters of Trump or of Q***n who see the light and leave the cult, or at least fall away from it when they stop seeing Trump occupying their screens every single day, Lalich added.Or maybe not. Trump’s tweets about winning the e******n and his attempts to overturn the results are both pathetic and unsuccessful with the country-at-large, but he still has millions of followers who believe in him, including many who have been tormenting e******n officials in states like Michigan and Georgia. This means that he has a built-in audience for more than just Twitter — maybe even enough for his own television network, where he can grow his base in a new, terrifying way.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/12/10192799/donald-trump-maga-cult-followers-future
It’s been over a month since E******n Day, and oth... (show quote)


One has to ask "Are these deplorable people, these treasonous vile bottom-feeders, these old white men, worth saving?"

The answer...some not all.

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Jan 19, 2021 19:44:45   #
Rose42
 
ken_stern wrote:
I already did that in Nov. 2020 -- V**ed for the guy & gal who will take over tomorrow -- Sure they will make mistakes -- But they will be honest mistakes
We need & must have a two-party system to grow & maintain our Democracy ---
BUT to have that we must have Political parties that have the "BALLS" to own-up to T***H & REALITY
Not the Republican Party we now have that creates & panders to social wedge issues & false reality Science & Medical Science
I already did that in Nov. 2020 -- V**ed for the g... (show quote)


I said any past president. Not this current guy.

I disagree that we need a two party system and could use a third. Our democracy isn't going to grow as long as the plutocrats control both - and that includes big pharma.

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Jan 19, 2021 20:04:11   #
ken_stern Loc: Yorba Linda, Ca
 
I fully understand what you said -- I specifically chose the only President available to me -- I have no idea how any of my favorite past presidents would handle present conditions -- I only know how they handled the conditions during their times -- The folks I v**ed for in Nov. are fully up-to-speed on our current terrible conditions
I'll grant you that what I feel was our finest President Lincoln was elected when we had three parties

Additional Edit:
Just about any if not all of our past Presidents would have handled Trumps only real test as President ---
THE C***D
@ least 100++% better then he failed to do --
They would have administrated a top-down Federally forcefully sponsored national/nationwide program vs handling everything mostly unpaid for off to the States -- Those Presidents would have all sported MASKS!!

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Jan 20, 2021 00:02:48   #
Nalle Loc: Tellus
 
pfrancke wrote:
a good read, some spacing might have made it more readable!

Some comments

1) Trumpers are bound together by being in a class that is fearful of their power being stripped away. They feel that their needs are not being met - they are middle class rural people independently scraping by and they fear taxation that would go to cities and they fear the population of those cities, and their cause is to protect their back yard.

2) The war on science and the idea that an alternate reality is OK appeals to those that manipulate people. The Q***n movement has an explanation for everything that appeals to those who are cynical and feel like they have always been lied to. Leaders that are charismatic and have a low tolerance for t***h and a high desire to be in charge naturally gravitate to such effort.

3) Christians are used to having a belief structure that can not be "proven". They have been ready for years to denounce science as the enemy and thus they are move vulnerable to "soft" arguments made by charismatic leaders that have something to offer them. A ready made base ready for abuse.
a good read, some spacing might have made it more ... (show quote)



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Jan 20, 2021 06:19:39   #
berchman Loc: South Central PA
 
Rose42 wrote:
If you could have any past president now who would you pick?


FDR.

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