Rongnongno Loc: FL

A reaction I had to a post to an earlier thread over my 'ideal' camera.
And now you will realize why I do not appreciate newer cameras full of 'options'.


You trust that thing to help you with anything????????

Sorry but histograms are made of a highly compressed extract of a scene you already shot. They are as misleading as a person barely able to see shades trying to lead a truly blind one across a busy freeway.


I have no issue with having a meter in camera as long as it is simple and allow spot metering and averaging. Spot to measure for the subject and average for the scene. Both are needed. What is not is going through menus or dial combination.

I have a 'classic' Gossen meter gathering dust on a shelf. I use the camera spot exposure most of the time and rarely move from that to average as I use a milky diffuser (as not to mess with the menus). The exposure difference due to the diffuser I use is -0.5 so I compensate +0.5 to the metered light.

The rant]
You need to learn light, especially if you shoot outdoor.
- The same amount of light hits everything regardless of its shade or color.
- Using a camera average reflective light gives you a generic control, not always accurate.
- Measuring incident average light will give you a variant depending if you measure it from a shady or a fully lit area. (You need to be in the scene and use a domed light meter for that or a neutral milky filter on a camera)
- Measuring the reflective light on a subject gives you the correct exposure for the subject and likely will under/over expose the rest.

Normal use of a camera always give you a reflective light measure which is not really accurate as averaging. Spot metering allows you to pin point the reflective light where you point the measuring point. From there you can decide what is more important, light or dark and select the best exposure reflecting your intent. If you do not know what you are doing, there is always the bracketing sledge hammer plus dependance on a camera DR if you dare using raw.

Indoor lighting is a whole different mess that depends in many factors like:
- Source of light (single or multiple source/flash*)
- Strength and temperature of light (per source/flash)
- Orientation and distance of individual source/light
- Use of reflectors or on light adapters
- Subject reflective quality

You basically paint with light that you fully control, a luxury you do not have outdoor, even if you use reflectors and fill flashes even if they do add some control (open shadow/ modify color shade)

Studio lighting is complex and one needs experience and expertise to really achieve something outstanding.

Many studios use a proved set formula to produce consistant result for mass producing portrait like school books, individual or family shoot at fund raising...
- Set the subject/group location
- Set lights according to diagram Height, distance, power, attachement if any.
- Set the tripod and camera according to the diagram
- Preset focusing, tape the focusing ring even.
- Select this lens, this aperture, this sync speed and oh, yeah, WB as well as JPG output.

Then you just push the camera button and then 'Next!, Next! ...'
No experience necessary.
If the guy is great he may even get a few natural smiles (good luck with teens).

----------
* Source = Continuous light. This does refer to modeling light often found is studio flashes. Modeling lights are great to preview where the light will fall, nothing else. They should be turned turned off when shooting.

RoswellAlien

f/8 and be there.

RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia

Quote
" Sorry but histograms are made of a highly compressed extract of a scene you already shot. They are as misleading as a person barely able to see shades trying to lead a truly blind one across a busy freeway."
End quote

The above statement is not always correct.
in some cases, for example mirrorless cameras, the histogram can be viewed before the photograph is taken.

See this thread from august 2020

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-661011-1.html

Rongnongno Loc: FL

Right but...
They are still highly compressed and not the reflection of what the real histogram is. Also they are based is on a JPG algorithm.

R.G. Loc: Scotland

Cameras are machines, which means they are predictable provided you understand them. If you know what situations can cause your camera's meter to give you a wrong exposure you can use EC to keep it right. Exposure doesn't have to get any more complicated than that. Using an incident light meter doesn't guarantee a good exposure (although it may keep your highlights safe).

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

As noted, with mirrorless cameras they can be available before the exposure is made and as such are not based on a JPEG algorithm. The JPEG algorithm is a data compression algorithm. What the live-view histograms reflect can be adjusted. On my cameras they well reflect the data I capture in a raw file.

How "compressed" they are is camera make/model specific. A Fuji camera for example displays 4 pretty good sized histograms before exposure -- a luminosity plus RGB histograms: https://3.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS560x560~forums/61057997/a7abdc3bffa144b19cff611ba9fe2f7e

ELNikkor

shoot, look at rear screen, make adjustments, shoot again...(film offered no such luxury!)

Tomfl101 Loc: Mount Airy, MD

It doesn’t have to be any more complicated than that, does it ELNikkor.

Here’s a challenge:
Tape over your review screen and shoot a wide variety of scenes using only histograms and or meter readings. My money says ELNikkors method delivers the most consistent results.

gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast

I look at it this way. A camera captures an approximation of what we see and we see an approximation of what is there.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

A camera sees the world differently than the human eye, so who cares what the camera saw?

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Usually, but if you shoot Canon, Magic Lantern will provide a raw histogram (along with many other features) for many models.

Btw Jacque, I like your explanation regarding incident vs reflected light.

User ID

And likewise, who cares what the human eye sees ... or much better stated “what human vision merely thinks it sees”.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Photography is easy, it's learning PhotoShop that's hard.

User ID

The singular advantage of an incident reading is that everyone knows it’s not readily transferable to your camera EV controls and almost always requires some interpretation.

The disadvantage of various forms of reflected reading is that users tend to think the reading actually is readily useable as camera EV settings.

IOW all readings require interpretation but it’s a whole lot more in your face obvious when doing incident readings. That means the “incident advantage” is not so much technical as psychological.

Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona

Truer words were never spoken, to bad you misspelled the first word. The quote should read "Photographing is easy, it's learning PhotoShop that's hard.