Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Check out Black and White Photography section of our forum.
Main Photography Discussion
How to improve!
Page <<first <prev 4 of 4
Nov 15, 2020 16:45:32   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
fantom wrote:
You have a lot of excellent information in your third paragraph BUT, when photographing an action wildlife shot you usually do not have the luxury of shooting a pic, looking at the histogram, looking at the pic, adjusting settings and taking the shot etc.

This is especially true when trying to shoot two fighting elk who are moving constantly and could cease fighting and move away at any moment. Naturally, if time permits do these things and make adjustments, but that is contingent upon what the subjects are doing. Grazing deer, bugling elk etc are easy compared to fighting or running animals, so be flexible and realize the backgrounds will be constantly changing and possibly requiring setting adjustments.

The advice you give is solid but the shooter should try to do these things before arriving at the actual shoot site. Take pix of anything in conditions similar to what will be encountered and know in advance what the settings will probably need to be---and set them accordingly and adjust as needed, using the light meter, when making the first shot. Knowing your camera is essential for this step---and that is a whole other discussion. In the posted pix this would have helped compensate for the snow etc.

Also, a shutter speed of 1250 would be the minimum I would have used. I would have followed the guide lines recommended by Steve Perry in his Backcountry Gallery.com and then used an auto ISO. Go to the camera's menu and set a maximum ISO however, at the uppermost level of noise that you can tolerate.

Also take multiple exposures. Elk move very, very quickly when fighting. I have seen two elk change positions where the one on the right is now on the left in far less time than it takes to advance one frame of film. Shooting multiple exposures at one time with an autofocused DSLR can frequently capture those actions now.

There are reasons why shooting wildlife is so much fun and very challenging, but the bottom line is try to be lucky------ and don't forget that in many cases you make your own luck.
You have a lot of excellent information in your th... (show quote)


I don't know about that. I usually sit around and wait for the wildlife to appear. In the meantime, I have done all of the prep work - (test shots, adjustments etc) so I am ready for it when it happens. It does get a little dicey when you have radically changing light - like lots of passing clouds - but over time one gets comfortable with making adjustments on the fly.

The problem I have with AutoISO is that you are forced into using exposure compensation for adjustments for bright or dark subjects. I use full manual, no auto anything - just like I used to when shooting film - old habits die hard. Steve is a great photographer and what he does obviously works very well for him and others that use his approach.

An elk is a formidable subject in many ways, but as far as movement is concerned, it is no match for a tiny nervous bird at short range, like 20-30 ft, especially when tightly zoomed. Very unpredictable. Or a dragonfly in flight. Way harder to shoot than an elk or other large animal. My standard shutter speed and aperture setting is 1/1000 sec and F7.1 to F8, and whatever ISO I need to support that exposure setting. When the light starts to disappear, I drop down to whatever, relying on OS if hand holding, or lower if on a tripod. But while a longer shutter speed will give you a better exposure, any movement from the subject will result in some level of blur.

Take a look at some of my "stuff" at https://www.flickr.com/photos/gene_lugo/ to see what I am talking about.

Reply
Nov 15, 2020 16:52:03   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Photolady2014 wrote:
Thanks for all the input and I think you did a better job than I did on the first photo! I was a bid dismayed when I found I was on Pro Photo, that has happened before I that is not what I use!!! I had called Adobe for help as my LR is running very slow and she did some adjustments and what ever she did didn’t really help and it changed me to the Pro Photo.... I have had the lens professionally calibrated to the body, so it should be ok. I have gotten good photos from this combination so it is my technique and the under exposure was a big part. Not thinking about the snow another part....
I can take a decent photo!
Thanks for all the input and I think you did a bet... (show quote)


ProPhoto is the default "color space" in Lightroom. Actually it is called MelissaRGB, which has the color depth of ProPhoto but uses a gamma value of 1 instead of 2.2.

I use ProPhoto in all of my post-Lightroom processing - and only switch to sRGB and jpeg only after all of my editing is complete.

FWIW, I have 21 lenses and not a single one has been "calibrated" - I make sure that both the lenses and camera bodies are within spec, and that is more than adequate for excellent sharpness. - as long as I don't mess up, which happens more often than I'd like to admit.

Reply
Nov 15, 2020 16:56:29   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
SalvageDiver wrote:
Well, let me be a contrarian here and add a different opinion. You don't always need a tack sharp image to have a good image. The technical difficulty with this shot was the flat lighting and lack of color contrast between the subject and background. I don't think sharpening or exposure corrections has much effect on this image in its current form.

What I did find interesting and important in this image was the determined look in the eyes and the locked horns. I don't feel the foreground snow bank or the other elks grazing in the background add anything to this composition. Robert Capa, one of the old masters, said "If your pictures aren't good enough, you aren't close enough.” I suggest you get closer. Since you can't physically get closer, you might consider a tighter crop, presenting just the important part of the image.

Gene51 showed his cat image. He explained how shooting technique could still preserve image quality. What I saw in his crop was a much better composition than the original even if he would have lost some detail. He cropped down to the most important element of that image. I cropped into your image and I found what I feel is a much better image. From there you can sharpen, increase exposure and contrast, etc., but your starting with a better composition. I also found that the crop was easier to edit than the original.

Just another POV, hope this helps.
Mike
Well, let me be a contrarian here and add a differ... (show quote)


Thanks for your comment! - My dirty little secret - cats can sit motionless for minutes at a time, so I used that nugget to set my shutter speed. I was able to avoid high ISO and relied on the OS in the lens to keep things still. It was a feral/copmmunity cat, but one that I was looking after, so she had a level of comfort with me that was also a big plus.

Reply
Check out Underwater Photography Forum section of our forum.
Nov 15, 2020 18:02:02   #
Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado
 
fantom wrote:
You have a lot of excellent information in your third paragraph BUT, when photographing an action wildlife shot you usually do not have the luxury of shooting a pic, looking at the histogram, looking at the pic, adjusting settings and taking the shot etc.

This is especially true when trying to shoot two fighting elk who are moving constantly and could cease fighting and move away at any moment. Naturally, if time permits do these things and make adjustments, but that is contingent upon what the subjects are doing. Grazing deer, bugling elk etc are easy compared to fighting or running animals, so be flexible and realize the backgrounds will be constantly changing and possibly requiring setting adjustments.

The advice you give is solid but the shooter should try to do these things before arriving at the actual shoot site. Take pix of anything in conditions similar to what will be encountered and know in advance what the settings will probably need to be---and set them accordingly and adjust as needed, using the light meter, when making the first shot. Knowing your camera is essential for this step---and that is a whole other discussion. In the posted pix this would have helped compensate for the snow etc.

Also, a shutter speed of 1250 would be the minimum I would have used. I would have followed the guide lines recommended by Steve Perry in his Backcountry Gallery.com and then used an auto ISO. Go to the camera's menu and set a maximum ISO however, at the uppermost level of noise that you can tolerate.

Also take multiple exposures. Elk move very, very quickly when fighting. I have seen two elk change positions where the one on the right is now on the left in far less time than it takes to advance one frame of film. Shooting multiple exposures at one time with an autofocused DSLR can frequently capture those actions now.

There are reasons why shooting wildlife is so much fun and very challenging, but the bottom line is try to be lucky------ and don't forget that in many cases you make your own luck.
You have a lot of excellent information in your th... (show quote)


Ok, I'm glad someone else did not think my 1/1250 was crazy! I like everything you said, my biggest mistake was not changing light metering and the -.3. One of these days I will remember to check everything..... I remember getting my Instrument rating, at first I could only hold a heading and stay level, then I advanced to heading, level, rate of decent and talking to center while reading a map....! Hopefully this wildlife photography will be similar!

Reply
Nov 15, 2020 18:08:56   #
Photolady2014 Loc: Southwest Colorado
 
Gene51 wrote:
Thanks for your comment! - My dirty little secret - cats can sit motionless for minutes at a time, so I used that nugget to set my shutter speed. I was able to avoid high ISO and relied on the OS in the lens to keep things still. It was a feral/copmmunity cat, but one that I was looking after, so she had a level of comfort with me that was also a big plus.


As I said on a previous page, I can take a good photos, I still have to think more and faster and consider variables more!


(Download)

Reply
Nov 15, 2020 18:29:42   #
OutBack Loc: North Central Florida
 
Wow, well done!

Reply
Nov 16, 2020 00:04:31   #
fantom Loc: Colorado
 
Gene51 wrote:
I don't know about that. I usually sit around and wait for the wildlife to appear. In the meantime, I have done all of the prep work - (test shots, adjustments etc) so I am ready for it when it happens. It does get a little dicey when you have radically changing light - like lots of passing clouds - but over time one gets comfortable with making adjustments on the fly.

The problem I have with AutoISO is that you are forced into using exposure compensation for adjustments for bright or dark subjects. I use full manual, no auto anything - just like I used to when shooting film - old habits die hard. Steve is a great photographer and what he does obviously works very well for him and others that use his approach.

An elk is a formidable subject in many ways, but as far as movement is concerned, it is no match for a tiny nervous bird at short range, like 20-30 ft, especially when tightly zoomed. Very unpredictable. Or a dragonfly in flight. Way harder to shoot than an elk or other large animal. My standard shutter speed and aperture setting is 1/1000 sec and F7.1 to F8, and whatever ISO I need to support that exposure setting. When the light starts to disappear, I drop down to whatever, relying on OS if hand holding, or lower if on a tripod. But while a longer shutter speed will give you a better exposure, any movement from the subject will result in some level of blur.

Take a look at some of my "stuff" at https://www.flickr.com/photos/gene_lugo/ to see what I am talking about.
I don't know about that. I usually sit around and ... (show quote)


The OP was asking about an elk picture and my comments addressed her situation. We all recognize that there is a big difference between shooting fighting elk vs birds, bugs or grazing elk. She probably was not in a national park nor a game preserve where she had the luxury of setting up in advance with a tripod and waiting for something to happen. There is nothing wrong with that kind of approach but when things occur suddenly and quickly you have to act accordingly---hence the fast shutter speed and auto ISO suggestions.

I too shoot fully manual in most conditions but have found that some situations require other mode settings. For example, while looking for animals while hiking on a trail or driving on 4X4 back road and continually passing thru constant light changes in meadows, stands of bright aspen groves, and black timber, etc, manual mode won't cut it if you need to take a spontaneous shot. In those situations I will set the shutter speed to what I think I will need for a moving animal and take my chances that I can correct exposure in post.

In manual mode I have had countless shots of empty trails or roads or the tail end of everything from a coyote to a moose disappearing into the trees because I was in fully manual mode. I figure all of these camera features have a purpose and it pays to use them when appropriate. Obviously it is wise to use the absolute correct methods when time and circumstances permit.

So, I think the discussion boils down to what do you do when time and circumstances permit and what do you do for a rapidly developing spontaneous situation. Two sides of the same coin. Anticipate, plan, be flexible and be lucky should work for most of us.

Reply
 
 
Nov 16, 2020 00:12:26   #
fantom Loc: Colorado
 
Photolady2014 wrote:
Ok, I'm glad someone else did not think my 1/1250 was crazy! I like everything you said, my biggest mistake was not changing light metering and the -.3. One of these days I will remember to check everything..... I remember getting my Instrument rating, at first I could only hold a heading and stay level, then I advanced to heading, level, rate of decent and talking to center while reading a map....! Hopefully this wildlife photography will be similar!


Your flight training progress analogy is quite appropriate. Just like continually scanning the instrument panel, checking your camera settings will become second nature but we all sometimes forget in the heat of battle.

Thinking more about shutter speed I should mention that 1250 would be my starting point and I would go to 2000 or higher if lighting permitted. You can improve exposure in PS or LR but you have to live with blurry pix, so err on the side of focus has been my philosophy.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 4 of 4
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Check out Photo Critique Section section of our forum.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.