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Someone asked me to send unedited photos
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Oct 26, 2020 19:43:02   #
BebuLamar
 
The only reason someone wants the raw files because they are not happy with the images they got. They hope that they can savage the images using the raw files.
I do agree that hurts the OP ego but I do not think it's greedy.

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Oct 26, 2020 21:04:27   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Everyone is pointing out valid issues about copyright, the photographer's ownership of negatives or files, matters of professional reputation and ethics. This is all well and good and completely relevant and
applicable only IF thereis a real client/professional and contractual relationship involved in the transaction and everyone is on the same page from the getgo.

If "Grandpa, Uncle Oscar, Aunt Hortense, or a friend who is handy with a camera is gonna take some snapshots" is the perception of the wedding couple, there will be no expectation of any of these issues materializing and all that will result in hard feelings, misunderstandings, and arguments.

Some folks, quite innocently, have no perception of what professional wedding photography entails. They have no idea of the skill required for coverage and the production of good images, even for a small casual wedding celebration. They then hand the task to an inexperienced shooter and, after the fact, if they are dissatisfied, they become "aficionados of fine photography".

This is not to imply that the OP, in this case, is a bad photographer or editor, but this problem is typical if there is no prior mutual understanding from the start.

The same "customer" would not likely trust the young fellow next door who tinkers with engines to do a transmission overhaul on their car- they would bring it to a shop where there are competent mechanics. Most folks know about stuff like that but the average consumers' knowledge of professional photography is lacking. It's not something that they need or buy regularly.
Everyone is pointing out valid issues about copyri... (show quote)


unless the OP got a model release from each and every person he photographed the value of these images to him is questionable, even if he registers the copyright. He should provide what he's being asked for and vow never to do this again.

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Oct 26, 2020 23:31:36   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Gene51 wrote:
unless the OP got a model release from every person he photographed the value of these images to him is questionable, even if he registers the copyright. He should provide what he's being asked for and vow never to do this again.


You are 100% right!

In over 50 years of wedding photography, I only took one client to court for the unauthorized reproduction of my work.

They purchased a large package, 3- 50-page albums and a 16x20 portrait. After I delivered the job, I got a call from one of my part-time assistants who worked in a local colour lab. He informed me that the bride's dad came there and ordered copy negatives and a batch of large prints. I approached the lab management and told them that they are gonna be implicated in a lawsuit so they released copies of the invoices to me as evidence. I took the clients to small claims court and the judge ruled against them.

They had to return all the copied material to me and pay me to make legitimate copies.

My contract stipulated that I hold the copyright and unauthorized reproduction is therefore prohibited.

The notice of copyright was stamped on the back of the prints and mounts and some of them were signed. The bogus copies were terrible- the original prints were on textured paper and lacquered- it was a mess! I sued for damages in that my signature was on the prints and my reputation was therefore jeopardized. . The judge said that small claims court does not award such punitive damages but he thought his ruling was compensatory enough.

It seems that the contractual agreement between the parties was enough protection. My contract also contains an intrinsic model release that allows me to use the image for display, samples of my work and teaching purposes.

I did not enjoy taking a client to court- its aggravation! In a way, it can be bad PR in a community but on the other side of the coin, I had to let folks know that they have to honour their agreements. I'd rather folks tell me if they want something that is beyond their budget and we will work things out. In that case, they could well afford my services and the ended up paying me, the colour lab, the court costs, and the paid me again- bad economy. Well- at least they got some decent prints.

I realize that nowadays, in the cyber age, it may be harder to control these issues, but I am still in the ALBUM business- I don't release printable files. If they want a slide show I charge additionally. We have our own video crew and that service is sold separately. If they want some shots for Facebook, etc, I make a small CD and include permission. I don't do high volume- I average 25 weddings per year (pre-Covid). I get clients who want good stuff and don't want to DYI their post-processing or mess with RAW files.

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Oct 27, 2020 04:01:14   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
Perhaps they are simply not entirely happy with the way you edited the images and prefer to try it themselves or give to another person to edit.

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Oct 28, 2020 06:11:17   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
SABugl123 wrote:
I did my first wedding for free. Spend time editing the photos & sent them to the couple. Now they want me to unedited them & send them to them. Do I go back & unedit them, & resend them? I am kind of socked & somewhat offended. What do I do???


Had they seen the unedited set before they asked for them?

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Oct 28, 2020 06:30:08   #
Douglas Tharp Loc: Texas
 
My sister’s daughter got married, and I was told to leave my gear at home. I watched the wedding photographer and thought she did not know what she was doing. I had my Apple phone and shot the wedding from the hip. Told my sister, expecting to get, disciplined. She asked for the pictures and they were used for the wedding photographs. Who knows what is going to happen?

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Oct 28, 2020 12:08:02   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Douglas Tharp wrote:
My sister’s daughter got married, and I was told to leave my gear at home. I watched the wedding photographer and thought she did not know what she was doing. I had my Apple phone and shot the wedding from the hip. Told my sister, expecting to get, disciplined. She asked for the pictures and they were used for the wedding photographs. Who knows what is going to happen?


Might as well COPY this post and PASTE this quote and post it on every thread that mentions wedding photography. There is always, at least, one story like this. The hired photographer was bad and UNCLE to the rescue- or whomever!

They never say WHY they thought the hired person was incompetent or what actions led them to believe that.

Folks put on a WEDDING- it's expensive- they buy or rent the best attire the can afford, the don't hire AMATEUR officiators, caterers, DJs, bands, or florists so why don't they take the time to vet their photographer and make sure he or she knows what they are doing- ask for recommendations, scrutinize the "pro's" samples, or hire a local professional in good standing who is a known quantity? Beats me!

If the don't know anythg about photography, why don't they enlist the help of Uncle, in advance, or whomever to render an expert opinion? Thay way the bride and groom get to have good images of their wedding, and all the guests can enjoy the celebrations without becoming pinch-hitters for the "official" photograher. If they can't afford the pro's fee, why no get UNCLE to do the honours in the first place so he could use his full-featured camera rather than his iPhone?

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Oct 28, 2020 15:19:15   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Might as well COPY this post and PASTE this quote and post it on every thread that mentions wedding photography. There is always, at least, one story like this. The hired photographer was bad and UNCLE to the rescue- or whomever!

They never say WHY they thought the hired person was incompetent or what actions led them to believe that.

Folks put on a WEDDING- it's expensive- they buy or rent the best attire the can afford, the don't hire AMATEUR officiators, caterers, DJs, bands, or florists so why don't they take the time to vet their photographer and make sure he or she knows what they are doing- ask for recommendations, scrutinize the "pro's" samples, or hire a local professional in good standing who is a known quantity? Beats me!

If the don't know anythg about photography, why don't they enlist the help of Uncle, in advance, or whomever to render an expert opinion? Thay way the bride and groom get to have good images of their wedding, and all the guests can enjoy the celebrations without becoming pinch-hitters for the "official" photograher. If they can't afford the pro's fee, why no get UNCLE to do the honours in the first place so he could use his full-featured camera rather than his iPhone?
Might as well COPY this post and PASTE this quote ... (show quote)


Amen!!!!
(A friend shot my daughter's wedding for free..... but she's a pro.)

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Oct 28, 2020 15:39:56   #
BebuLamar
 
Delderby wrote:
Had they seen the unedited set before they asked for them?


If the edited images are too dark or too bright I would hope to be able to fix them if I have the raw files.

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Oct 28, 2020 22:30:53   #
frangeo Loc: Texas
 
SABugl123 wrote:
I did my first wedding for free. Spend time editing the photos & sent them to the couple. Now they want me to unedited them & send them to them. Do I go back & unedit them, & resend them? I am kind of socked & somewhat offended. What do I do???


If you edited your images in ACDSEE you would have 2 files. 1. Edited, 2. Unedited. You NEVER lose your base images. Edit, save to Edited file folder, originals stay in basic file folder. Love this program. Been using it for over 20 years. so much faster that PS. ACDSee can do 90% of your touchups. Heavy work just pop into PS. It also loads very fast, you edit a lower res version and when you save your image it self edits a full res version to your destination file.

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Oct 29, 2020 10:22:36   #
Peteso Loc: Blacks Hills
 
Did you ask them why? If so, what was their response? Perhaps more fundamentally, you shouldn’t have to ask them why. A request like that should’ve included an explanation of why they would make a request like that.

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Oct 29, 2020 15:51:50   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
BebuLamar wrote:
The only reason someone wants the raw files because they are not happy with the images they got. They hope that they can savage the images using the raw files.
I do agree that hurts the OP ego but I do not think it's greedy.


That was my first thought, they wanted to re-do the work, but then I think there could be other reasons. Maybe they want to archive them, maybe they want to have big prints made. And was it clarified that they asked for raw? The OP said “unedited photos”. In which case he could give them unedited jpegs.

As was said 100 times here, OP needs to ask why they want them before making a decision.

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Oct 29, 2020 21:29:14   #
lschiz Loc: Elgin, IL
 
Bill_de wrote:
If it is a friend, send them what they want.

If it's a acquaintance tell him what you charge.

---


I agree here.
If an acquaintance, you agreed
to shoot the wedding and deliver images. They didn’t pay for the raw files, didn’t pay for anything.
You still own the rights to originals.
Charge them! Even if a token fee.
But friends or family?
I’d give them everything and stay clear of a situation like that ever again.

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Nov 1, 2020 22:02:34   #
Tea8 Loc: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plain.
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Well- as longs as he doesn't take up brain surgery, astrophysics, or is in charge of the nuclear code, I can sleep at night!



That's fair cause I've worked with neurosurgeons I wouldn't want doing brain surgery on me.

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