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crop factor question.
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Sep 20, 2020 11:48:50   #
bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.
 
fx has a 1.5 crop for over a dx a-mount lens. what would the crop factor be for a Sony fx a-mount lens on a Sony e-mount camera?

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Sep 20, 2020 11:50:58   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
bull drink water wrote:
fx has a 1.5 crop for over a dx a-mount lens. what would the crop factor be for a Sony fx a-mount lens on a Sony e-mount camera?


The same 1.5.

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Sep 20, 2020 12:00:14   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
Crop factor is determined by the size of the sensor.

The lens projects the same image no matter what is is attached to.

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Sep 20, 2020 13:21:16   #
Fotoserj Loc: St calixte Qc Ca
 
I , after close to ten year back to photography, the fixation that some have on crop factor, IMO, IT is a very successful publicity stunt to justify the use of smaller than 24x36 sensor, even if you take the same image on the same tripod with a full frame and a crop sensor you wouldn’t see a difference

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Sep 20, 2020 13:36:26   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
Fotoserj wrote:
I , after close to ten year back to photography, the fixation that some have on crop factor, IMO, IT is a very successful publicity stunt to justify the use of smaller than 24x36 sensor, even if you take the same image on the same tripod with a full frame and a crop sensor you wouldn’t see a difference


No, it's just a way to allow people to make a comparison and understand what to expect from the sensor size difference. There's nothing about it that's a stunt or an attempt to justifying anything.

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Sep 20, 2020 13:52:33   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Ysarex wrote:
No, it's just a way to allow people to make a comparison and understand what to expect from the sensor size difference. There's nothing about it that's a stunt or an attempt to justifying anything.


Had semiconductor technology been at a point 20 or 25 years ago that it has been for the last 5 or 10 years, I doubt that we would have ever seen cameras with a sensor that was anything other than 24x36. At the time of the beginning of digital photography, it was simply not possible to make a sensor that size without imbedded flaws that would render them unusable. Now that the technology is maturing, I expect to see a rationalization to full frame sensors on one hand and a single smaller sensor of some size at the other end. There is no way for to predict how long that will take, but it will happen at some point. Depending on how market forces and tech capabilities develop, the standardization could even be at DX, with the 24x36mm sensor going away, but that would seem less likely. Somewhere along the way, the pixel race is likely to peak and then come down to a more reasonable level, unless there is a major shift in the priorities of the younger generations.

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Sep 21, 2020 08:46:51   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
bull drink water wrote:
fx has a 1.5 crop for over a dx a-mount lens. what would the crop factor be for a Sony fx a-mount lens on a Sony e-mount camera?


same

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Sep 21, 2020 09:30:33   #
a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
 
The Sony/Minolta A-mount works on a Sony E-Mount camera with one of the Sony adapters. It does not affect the crop factor. The Sony E-Mount is used on both full frame and crop frame Sony cameras. As said above, the crop factor is determined by the size of the sensor relative to the 35 mm dimensions which were inherited from film.

Some lenses offered by Sony and others are designed for crop frame sensors and are thus smaller. If used on a full frame (AKA 35mm size) camera they will probably produce vignetting but will work ok.

The crop factor is actually what it says but the "equivalent focal length" is a convenient use of terminology. The cropped image is approximately the same angle of view as the equivalent. Thus a 40 mm lens on a cropped image (1.5) has the same angle of view as a 60 mm lens but the size of the image on the sensor is no different. The equivalent length is easier to understand than an angle such as 5.3 degrees where a smaller number yields a bigger appearing image.

You did not ask, but some crop frame cameras, even many, offer smaller pixels which is the same as saying more pixels in the same sensor area. For example, the pixel density on my a6500 is about 15% greater than on the a7R3. While this causes a slight reduction in image quality, it means that small targets such as birds can be more tightly cropped with acceptable prints as a result. This is not an inherent result of the cropped size sensor but it is a common reality. The area of a 1.5x cropped sensor is only 1.5^2 or 2.25X smaller. Looked at the other way, my a6500 with 24 MP has the same pixel density as a 54 MP full frame sensor. Very few full frame cameras offer that (Sony a7R4).

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Sep 21, 2020 09:31:24   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
bull drink water wrote:
fx has a 1.5 crop for over a dx a-mount lens. what would the crop factor be for a Sony fx a-mount lens on a Sony e-mount camera?


The mount doesn’t matter. The crop is due to the camera. The focal length is a physical attribute of the lens. A 100mm full frame lens is still a 100mm lens on your crop sensor camera, but because of the sensor size the angle of view is the same as a 150mm lens would be on a full frame camera, thus the “equivalent” focal length is 150mm. A 100mm lens designed for the crop camera is still a 100mm focal length but also gives you the equivalent 150mm focal length. The crop factor applies no matter what size body the lens was designed for.

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Sep 21, 2020 09:34:46   #
BebuLamar
 
larryepage wrote:
Had semiconductor technology been at a point 20 or 25 years ago that it has been for the last 5 or 10 years, I doubt that we would have ever seen cameras with a sensor that was anything other than 24x36. At the time of the beginning of digital photography, it was simply not possible to make a sensor that size without imbedded flaws that would render them unusable. Now that the technology is maturing, I expect to see a rationalization to full frame sensors on one hand and a single smaller sensor of some size at the other end. There is no way for to predict how long that will take, but it will happen at some point. Depending on how market forces and tech capabilities develop, the standardization could even be at DX, with the 24x36mm sensor going away, but that would seem less likely. Somewhere along the way, the pixel race is likely to peak and then come down to a more reasonable level, unless there is a major shift in the priorities of the younger generations.
Had semiconductor technology been at a point 20 o... (show quote)


I understand and agree with you for the APS-C format but not for other formats. There would be medium format sensor and there would be M4/3 or even smaller for a compact camera system.

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Sep 21, 2020 22:33:18   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
The mount doesn’t matter. The crop is due to the camera. The focal length is a physical attribute of the lens. A 100mm full frame lens is still a 100mm lens on your crop sensor camera, but because of the sensor size the angle of view is the same as a 150mm lens would be on a full frame camera, thus the “equivalent” focal length is 150mm. A 100mm lens designed for the crop camera is still a 100mm focal length but also gives you the equivalent 150mm focal length. The crop factor applies no matter what size body the lens was designed for.
The mount doesn’t matter. The crop is due to the c... (show quote)

All true ... and a new thread on the same topic will soon arise again, like Dracula from his grave.

No amount of stakes through the heart will stop it’s reanimating.

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Sep 22, 2020 00:50:32   #
MW
 
Ysarex wrote:
No, it's just a way to allow people to make a comparison and understand what to expect from the sensor size difference. There's nothing about it that's a stunt or an attempt to justifying anything.


And it really has nothing to do with digital photography. It is related to the dimensions of early 20th century motion picture film when adapted to the first Leicas — (or something sort of like that). That particular size film frame, 24mm X 36mm, became so widely used for decades it was a frame of reference (pun intended) for many years. Most photographers a a fair idea of what the angle of view would be for certain common lens focal lengths such as 28mm, 50mm, 135mm etc. Crop factor is just way for geezers like me to relate the angle of view of smaller frame sizes to something they were accustomed to in their younger days. If you are under 30 yrs old I think you should avoid the whole topic and just take photos with whatever you have at the moment

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Sep 22, 2020 01:41:02   #
User ID
 
In dealing with a multitude of film formats the term “crop factor” was never invented. The only info needed, and it was never a mystery, was to know the normal lens for the size camera in use. Once you knew that, all additional lenses were compared to the normal lens, never to other formats. No one was confused, not even noobies. There were a few minor inconsistencies about FoV for normal lenses, but these were mostly ignored. The general trend was that the smaller the format, the narrower the normal lens FoV. I spoze the rationale was to preserve detail. The current crop factor nonsense fails to deal with that idea.

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Sep 22, 2020 05:34:35   #
BebuLamar
 
User ID wrote:
In dealing with a multitude of film formats the term “crop factor” was never invented. The only info needed, and it was never a mystery, was to know the normal lens for the size camera in use. Once you knew that, all additional lenses were compared to the normal lens, never to other formats. No one was confused, not even noobies. There were a few minor inconsistencies about FoV for normal lenses, but these were mostly ignored. The general trend was that the smaller the format, the narrower the normal lens FoV. I spoze the rationale was to preserve detail. The current crop factor nonsense fails to deal with that idea.
In dealing with a multitude of film formats the te... (show quote)


That is be cause back in the film days the only people who really use crop are those who used view camera. Others have lenses, camera and film format all go together.
In the beginning of DSLR the crop was introduced because the almost everything of the cameras were designed for the 24x36mm format except the sensor.

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Sep 22, 2020 06:28:26   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
BebuLamar wrote:
That is be cause back in the film days the only people who really use crop are those who used view camera. Others have lenses, camera and film format all go together.
In the beginning of DSLR the crop was introduced because the almost everything of the cameras were designed for the 24x36mm format except the sensor.


Actually it began in 1996 with the APS film system which was designed as a replacement for the 110 film system.

I don't doubt that a FF sensor was possible with the introduction of the DSLR, but it would have been astonishingly expensive and required a much larger camera body.

The APS sized sensor, and electronics required, would fit in the form factor a then modern SLR.

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