A useful read on flu + covid
Sep 8, 2020 15:28:15 #
While this article is slanted to Minnesota, others might have something to take away.
What does the start of flu season amid the COVID-19 pandemic mean for Minnesota?
Not much is known about the way COVID-19 and the flu interact.
By Greta Kaul | MinnPost Staff Writer
Sept. 3, 2020
As if living with COVID-19 for nearly six months wasn’t enough, Minnesotans have another thing to worry about as the temperature drops and fall sets in: flu season.
Influenza, a serious respiratory virus in its own right, has killed between 40 and 440 Minnesota residents per year in recent years, sometimes taxing Minnesota’s hospital resources with patients fighting to breathe.
And that’s without the threat of the novel coronavirus, which has so far killed more than 1,800 Minnesotans this year.
It’s not clear yet how the flu and COVID-19 will interact together, experts say: the novel coronavirus hit much of the U.S. in March, at the tail end of this year’s flu season. But they worry that this flu season, the respiratory double whammy could put more lives
The devil we know and the devil we don’t
The seasonal flu is a devil we know: it’s believed to date back thousands of years, and may have been described by Hippocrates in writings from 410 BCE.
The human influenza virus was discovered by scientists in 1933, and researchers have been studying how the virus works, who is hardest hit and how to mitigate its effects ever since. Some years, such as when the A H3 influenza strain is dominant, the virus tends to be more severe than others, when, say, the A H1 strain is more dominant (the A refers to the strain — type A viruses can infect animals and humans, and H refers to hemagglutinin, a surface protein.
The flu has a short incubation period of between one and four days. It’s often described as hitting like a freight train, with symptoms like coughing, chills and fever that come on quickly. In severe cases, it can lead to pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome, sometimes even affecting the heart and central nervous system. Flu kills in an estimated 0.10 percent of cases, or one in 1,000.
If the flu is a devil we know, COVID-19 is a devil we’re still learning about. A pneumonia caused by an unknown pathogen was first noted to the World Health Organization on Dec. 31. The new coronavirus’ genome was sequenced by mid-January, and it’s so far killed more than 860,000 people worldwide.
COVID-19’s incubation period is thought to be between two and 14 days, but people may be most infectious before they even show any symptoms, making them unwitting transmitters of the virus. On top of that, perhaps 40 percent of cases are asymptomatic, making it difficult to estimate mortality rates.
Like the flu, a severe case of COVID-19 can result in pneumonia and severe acute respiratory distress. But the virus can also attack the kidneys, the heart and liver.
Flu + COVID-19 effects unclear
While we know COVID-19 isn’t likely to go away by the time flu season’s in full swing, there’s a lot we don’t know about how COVID-19 and the flu interact together.
“Both are respiratory viruses that have the potential to do their own separate damage,” said Dr. Anne Liu, infectious disease physician with Stanford Health Care in California.
Data from China suggest that people who are coinfected with the novel coronavirus and the flu may experience worse disease than those who have one or the other, Liu said.
“That’s not surprising to us, and I hope it’s not surprising to the public,” she said. “They are pretty different viruses, they seem to do damage in somewhat different ways, but both can be more severe in people who are elderly, immunocompromised, and people who have comorbidities.”
Both viruses mainly manifest by attacking the lungs, but autopsy pictures of the lungs of patients who have died from each of the viruses show the two attack in different ways.
“Certainly it would be reasonable to expect that having both together could increase the risk of respiratory failure and death, compared to having one virus,” Liu said.
And while we don’t know yet what the effects of coinfection would be, Liu said that with the coming flu season, we’re, unfortunately, likely to find out.
COVID-19 precautions may slow flu spread
One of the big questions looming over the combined COVID-19-flu season is just how bad of a flu year we’re in for.
Early data from the southern hemisphere, where it is currently the tail end of flu season, suggest a more mild year, said Jennifer Heath, the education and partnerships unit supervisor for the Minnesota Department of Health’s Vaccine Preventable Disease Section. Influenza cases in southern hemisphere countries are down this year compared to years past.
That might be because of health precautions taken to slow the spread of COVID-19, such as social distancing, mask wearing and handwashing. (It could also partly reflect less flu detection: people may be more reticent to go to the doctor with flu symptoms due to fears of COVID-19 exposure, Liu said.)
Ahead of flu season, health officials agree that getting a flu vaccine is the most immediate precaution, apart from social distancing, masks and handwashing, most people can take to help prevent what could be a very dangerous flu and COVID-19 season this year.
“We have a vaccine for influenza and that is just our best bet in trying to tamp down respiratory disease this fall,” Heath said.
Even when the flu vaccine doesn’t prevent people from getting sick with the virus, it generally helps prevent more severe disease, said Dr. Michael Matthay, a professor of medicine at the University of California-San Francisco, in a web forum last week. Matthay said most patients who succumb to acute respiratory distress syndrome from influenza have not been vaccinated for flu.
On top of its benefits in fighting influenza, some studies that have yet to be peer-reviewed suggest the vaccine may be associated with decreased COVID-19 mortality.
If this is the case, Liu said, it’s not clear whether there is some causality there — that the flu vaccine helps the body fight COVID-19, or whether people who get the flu vaccine tend to better heed public health directives, and are therefore less likely to get sicker and die.
Needless to say, now’s a good time to get a flu shot.
It takes about two weeks for the flu vaccine to take effect. The Minnesota Department of Health’s flu surveillance reports start tracking the virus at the end of September. While case counts are usually low through the fall, they pick up as winter starts up.
“We don’t want people to wait around because you might miss your opportunity, or you might forget,” Heath said.
What does the start of flu season amid the COVID-19 pandemic mean for Minnesota?
Not much is known about the way COVID-19 and the flu interact.
By Greta Kaul | MinnPost Staff Writer
Sept. 3, 2020
As if living with COVID-19 for nearly six months wasn’t enough, Minnesotans have another thing to worry about as the temperature drops and fall sets in: flu season.
Influenza, a serious respiratory virus in its own right, has killed between 40 and 440 Minnesota residents per year in recent years, sometimes taxing Minnesota’s hospital resources with patients fighting to breathe.
And that’s without the threat of the novel coronavirus, which has so far killed more than 1,800 Minnesotans this year.
It’s not clear yet how the flu and COVID-19 will interact together, experts say: the novel coronavirus hit much of the U.S. in March, at the tail end of this year’s flu season. But they worry that this flu season, the respiratory double whammy could put more lives
The devil we know and the devil we don’t
The seasonal flu is a devil we know: it’s believed to date back thousands of years, and may have been described by Hippocrates in writings from 410 BCE.
The human influenza virus was discovered by scientists in 1933, and researchers have been studying how the virus works, who is hardest hit and how to mitigate its effects ever since. Some years, such as when the A H3 influenza strain is dominant, the virus tends to be more severe than others, when, say, the A H1 strain is more dominant (the A refers to the strain — type A viruses can infect animals and humans, and H refers to hemagglutinin, a surface protein.
The flu has a short incubation period of between one and four days. It’s often described as hitting like a freight train, with symptoms like coughing, chills and fever that come on quickly. In severe cases, it can lead to pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome, sometimes even affecting the heart and central nervous system. Flu kills in an estimated 0.10 percent of cases, or one in 1,000.
If the flu is a devil we know, COVID-19 is a devil we’re still learning about. A pneumonia caused by an unknown pathogen was first noted to the World Health Organization on Dec. 31. The new coronavirus’ genome was sequenced by mid-January, and it’s so far killed more than 860,000 people worldwide.
COVID-19’s incubation period is thought to be between two and 14 days, but people may be most infectious before they even show any symptoms, making them unwitting transmitters of the virus. On top of that, perhaps 40 percent of cases are asymptomatic, making it difficult to estimate mortality rates.
Like the flu, a severe case of COVID-19 can result in pneumonia and severe acute respiratory distress. But the virus can also attack the kidneys, the heart and liver.
Flu + COVID-19 effects unclear
While we know COVID-19 isn’t likely to go away by the time flu season’s in full swing, there’s a lot we don’t know about how COVID-19 and the flu interact together.
“Both are respiratory viruses that have the potential to do their own separate damage,” said Dr. Anne Liu, infectious disease physician with Stanford Health Care in California.
Data from China suggest that people who are coinfected with the novel coronavirus and the flu may experience worse disease than those who have one or the other, Liu said.
“That’s not surprising to us, and I hope it’s not surprising to the public,” she said. “They are pretty different viruses, they seem to do damage in somewhat different ways, but both can be more severe in people who are elderly, immunocompromised, and people who have comorbidities.”
Both viruses mainly manifest by attacking the lungs, but autopsy pictures of the lungs of patients who have died from each of the viruses show the two attack in different ways.
“Certainly it would be reasonable to expect that having both together could increase the risk of respiratory failure and death, compared to having one virus,” Liu said.
And while we don’t know yet what the effects of coinfection would be, Liu said that with the coming flu season, we’re, unfortunately, likely to find out.
COVID-19 precautions may slow flu spread
One of the big questions looming over the combined COVID-19-flu season is just how bad of a flu year we’re in for.
Early data from the southern hemisphere, where it is currently the tail end of flu season, suggest a more mild year, said Jennifer Heath, the education and partnerships unit supervisor for the Minnesota Department of Health’s Vaccine Preventable Disease Section. Influenza cases in southern hemisphere countries are down this year compared to years past.
That might be because of health precautions taken to slow the spread of COVID-19, such as social distancing, mask wearing and handwashing. (It could also partly reflect less flu detection: people may be more reticent to go to the doctor with flu symptoms due to fears of COVID-19 exposure, Liu said.)
Ahead of flu season, health officials agree that getting a flu vaccine is the most immediate precaution, apart from social distancing, masks and handwashing, most people can take to help prevent what could be a very dangerous flu and COVID-19 season this year.
“We have a vaccine for influenza and that is just our best bet in trying to tamp down respiratory disease this fall,” Heath said.
Even when the flu vaccine doesn’t prevent people from getting sick with the virus, it generally helps prevent more severe disease, said Dr. Michael Matthay, a professor of medicine at the University of California-San Francisco, in a web forum last week. Matthay said most patients who succumb to acute respiratory distress syndrome from influenza have not been vaccinated for flu.
On top of its benefits in fighting influenza, some studies that have yet to be peer-reviewed suggest the vaccine may be associated with decreased COVID-19 mortality.
If this is the case, Liu said, it’s not clear whether there is some causality there — that the flu vaccine helps the body fight COVID-19, or whether people who get the flu vaccine tend to better heed public health directives, and are therefore less likely to get sicker and die.
Needless to say, now’s a good time to get a flu shot.
It takes about two weeks for the flu vaccine to take effect. The Minnesota Department of Health’s flu surveillance reports start tracking the virus at the end of September. While case counts are usually low through the fall, they pick up as winter starts up.
“We don’t want people to wait around because you might miss your opportunity, or you might forget,” Heath said.
Sep 8, 2020 16:29:16 #
Sep 8, 2020 17:50:51 #
Sep 9, 2020 05:02:42 #
John_F wrote:
While this article is slanted to Minnesota, others... (show quote)
I guess everyone has got their own ideas and can give advice.
Here in NZ we have a pop. of about 5,000,000. Main industry, tourism, exporting and coffee cafes.
Our Prime Minister mandated a lockdown of the entire country quite early and got a lot of criticism for it, me included.
But here are our stats as of today:
Covid-19 in NZ — 9th September
Active cases as at today, Confirmed & Probable 125, including 43 imported cases
All active cases are in quarantine or isolation
Total cases since day 1, 1788. Total recovered, 1639
Total Deaths since day 1, 24
After the Level 4 total lock-down from 25 March, there was heavy government advice via the media. All centered around stay inside unless you have to go out. Keep your distance, wash your hands, cough into your elbow (masks weren't considered at that time for some reason). Businesses apart from the essential ones were closed.
But it seemed to work. Some NZers rebelled against their rights to do what they want. No one was shot, or jailed (as far as I know). Police were just talking people out of their actions, for their own good. Most decided it was good advice and went along with it.
Some went too far and were lambasted in the media and seemed to just fade away.
Right now the economy is in a mess. Borders are sort of closed. Unemployment is high but people seem to be looking after neighbors and friends. Food kitchens are supplying food to them that haven't any, homeless are being put up in motels at government (taxpayer) expense. Wage subsidies run out fairly soon so economically things will get tougher. Some businesses have gone under and closed. I could go on....
This is a simplistic abbreviated explanation of how we have handled Covid19.
But few have died, just by following pretty logical advice. |
Masks are now mandatory in high risk situations, buses airplanes, supermarkets etc.
Sadly, 24 have died, most elderly with underlying conditions that afflict the elderly.
Our underlying philosophy seems to be 'where there's life, there's hope'.
So to the seasonal HN... flu that crops up worldwide almost, every winter. We have just had a winter at the same time as we have had Covid19 floating in the breeze.
Strangely our seasonal flu hospitalizations are about as low as they have ever been, if not lower.
My advice is follow Dr Mansoors advice, copied and pasted below, from one of out National newspapers awhile ago.
“The same advice given to protect against Covid-19 — wash your hands regularly, avoid touching your face, cough and sneeze into your elbow and make sure you stay home if you are sick — also protects against flu,' said Dr Mansoor.
My wife and I are in our mid to late 70's and have never had an annual flu shot, even tho both our doctors heavily advise having it. We have never had the flu. We have friends who get a flu shot every year and most still get the seasonal flu. We didnt get the flu this year either. Work that out.
Sep 9, 2020 06:48:14 #
Indeed as was discussed in this post, the Flu + COVID can be a 1-2 punch to really knock people down. I have been cloistering waiting for better times to go for various checkups.. dental, dermatologist, etc... but better times did not come with the heat of summer. In Florida, things continued to get worse than "got-worser." COVID 19 ain't goin' away any time soon.
In addition to cloistering, hunkering down at home, I wear a mask when out, wash hands, and change my shirt when returning home. I have updated my 5-year-old Pneumonia 13 shot to the more inclusive Pneumonia 23 shot that covers a wider range of bacterial infections. If the virus does not kill you the bacteria may. To reduce the risk of the Flu/COVID 1-2 punch, I have gotten my regular yearly Flu shot. I continue to take massive off the shelf, over the counter, Vitamin D. Vitamin D has been antidotally effective for lung health for a long time, 1930s, but now scientific double-blind studies have scientifically shown it to be effective. Why so long before a scientific study of vitamin D was funded? Well, it is dirt cheap, not exotic sounding as is some "10-HydroxyHoopla Magic-Green Pill," and the worse reason -- where is the profit.
Vitamin D ... Google: vitamin D studies show effective Campbell. Dr. Campbell is a retired Australian and he does a daily COVID-19 worldwide summary. The September 6, 2020 discussion of a scientific study of Vitamin D is found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Ks9fUh2k8&t=913s
There are red-flag health issues that are correctable and associated with COVID-19 deaths. Late last year I lost 20# lowering my Blood Pressure and pre-diabetes index. COVID takes advantage of health red-flag issues to put a tag on your big toe. I am 84 and in good health, but not taking chances, I want to see SpaceX put men on Mars and cars be universally electric, age 100 is only 16 years away.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-who-is-at-risk/art-20483301
Vitamin D ... Google: "vitamin D studies show effective Campbell." Dr. Campbell is a retired Australian Physician, he does a daily COVID-19 worldwide summary. On September 6, 2020, his program discussed the controlled Vitamin D study. The discussion is on YouTube, The program is found at --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Ks9fUh2k8&t=913s
Keep safe, keep healthy
In addition to cloistering, hunkering down at home, I wear a mask when out, wash hands, and change my shirt when returning home. I have updated my 5-year-old Pneumonia 13 shot to the more inclusive Pneumonia 23 shot that covers a wider range of bacterial infections. If the virus does not kill you the bacteria may. To reduce the risk of the Flu/COVID 1-2 punch, I have gotten my regular yearly Flu shot. I continue to take massive off the shelf, over the counter, Vitamin D. Vitamin D has been antidotally effective for lung health for a long time, 1930s, but now scientific double-blind studies have scientifically shown it to be effective. Why so long before a scientific study of vitamin D was funded? Well, it is dirt cheap, not exotic sounding as is some "10-HydroxyHoopla Magic-Green Pill," and the worse reason -- where is the profit.
Vitamin D ... Google: vitamin D studies show effective Campbell. Dr. Campbell is a retired Australian and he does a daily COVID-19 worldwide summary. The September 6, 2020 discussion of a scientific study of Vitamin D is found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Ks9fUh2k8&t=913s
There are red-flag health issues that are correctable and associated with COVID-19 deaths. Late last year I lost 20# lowering my Blood Pressure and pre-diabetes index. COVID takes advantage of health red-flag issues to put a tag on your big toe. I am 84 and in good health, but not taking chances, I want to see SpaceX put men on Mars and cars be universally electric, age 100 is only 16 years away.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-who-is-at-risk/art-20483301
Vitamin D ... Google: "vitamin D studies show effective Campbell." Dr. Campbell is a retired Australian Physician, he does a daily COVID-19 worldwide summary. On September 6, 2020, his program discussed the controlled Vitamin D study. The discussion is on YouTube, The program is found at --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Ks9fUh2k8&t=913s
Keep safe, keep healthy
Sep 9, 2020 08:33:13 #
The benefits of vitamin D have been well known for decades, but it can be dangerous in excess quantities. Toxic levels can cause organ damage, among other problems, including anorexia and weight loss. You mentioned having lost 20#. That, of course, could be a good thing, depending. But it could be a sign of vitamin D toxicity if your doses are too high.
Doctors typically prescribe 2000 units daily. 4000 units is considered the safe upper limit.
Doctors typically prescribe 2000 units daily. 4000 units is considered the safe upper limit.
Sep 9, 2020 14:06:00 #
Bayou wrote:
The benefits of vitamin D have been well known for decades, but it can be dangerous in excess quantities. Toxic levels can cause organ damage, among other problems, including anorexia and weight loss. You mentioned having lost 20#. That, of course, could be a good thing, depending. But it could be a sign of vitamin D toxicity if your doses are too high. Doctors typically prescribe 2000 units daily. 4000 units is considered the safe upper limit.
In science statements should have technical references. Your simple statement about toxic side effects without a reference can NaSay my reference for those who love conspiracies and live in a non-tech world of fear. My grandmother used to use vague unfounded gossip fear comments to control/manipulate people. Antidotal comments such as "I knew a woman who died the day after taking two vitamin D pills" leaves off the fact that her car stalled on a RailRoad track. Was it the Vitamin D or the Train? My guess is that it was the train.
Dosage and blood level are for us ol' duffs are tested twice a year in our blood workup. My last test was 71 using 10,000IU Over-the-Counter pill per day. My blood level is between low and medium level lines on Figure 2 of 11,693 healthy individuals taking Vitimin D.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26690210/#&gid=article-figures&pid=figure-2-uid-1
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26690210/
I take Vitamin D3 because it is the more effective: "Vitamin D3 mainly comes from animal sources such as fish oil, fatty fish, liver, and egg yolks. When your skin is exposed to sunlight, it produces vitamin D3. For this reason, it is sometimes referred to as the sunshine vitamin. " [from Puritan's Pride]
https://www.singlecare.com/blog/vitamin-d-vs-d3/
Regarding weight loss, i still have 15 more to go. How? Certainly not using the USA misguided low-fat approach which was based on IKE Eisenhower's heart attack and unqualified myth that it was from his eating too much fat and totally disregarding the stress of his roll in WW2 and being chain smoker. I looked to Australia, they have a site called LowCarbDownUnder. That is the approach I used. Also, I stopped Statin Drugs, a dollar-driven USA med which is frowned on by most of the world. My cholesterol/Lipid profile did not suffer. Consider Statins commonly causes muscle pain, my heart is a muscle do I need to die with a great Lipid profile? Heck No.
Sep 9, 2020 16:46:39 #
Just a note of caution regarding Vit D supplements.
Not all brands are created equal. Dont believe everything you read on the label. Research whichever you think looks the best, but as a guide, usually the first rule with any supps is 'you get what you pay for'.
Unless you are significantly overweight, you can get most Vit D requirements from daylight (sun doesnt have to be shining) over 2 days a week x half an hour each day on face, arms, etc, (even during Winter), plus a good diet. Dont use sunscreen.
Excessive Vit D can cause fragile bones in the elderly. Too much is as bad as too little.
If taking a Vit D supplement, take it with good oily/fatty food to aid absorption.
D3 is the only 'D' supplement most doctors recommend.
Disclosure; wife spent many years in the 'health' industry.
Not all brands are created equal. Dont believe everything you read on the label. Research whichever you think looks the best, but as a guide, usually the first rule with any supps is 'you get what you pay for'.
Unless you are significantly overweight, you can get most Vit D requirements from daylight (sun doesnt have to be shining) over 2 days a week x half an hour each day on face, arms, etc, (even during Winter), plus a good diet. Dont use sunscreen.
Excessive Vit D can cause fragile bones in the elderly. Too much is as bad as too little.
If taking a Vit D supplement, take it with good oily/fatty food to aid absorption.
D3 is the only 'D' supplement most doctors recommend.
Disclosure; wife spent many years in the 'health' industry.
Sep 10, 2020 16:35:03 #
fetzler
Loc: North West PA
John_F wrote:
While this article is slanted to Minnesota, others... (show quote)
Minnesotans have far more things to fear than COVID.
I my current location ( 80% of COVID deaths have occurred in long term care facilities and 96% have been individuals more than 65 years old. Less than 50 people have died. In Minnesota the death raTe and number of new cases are declining. Indeed Minnesota has been affected less than many states.
A bigger fear should be the behavior of government in Minnesota and Minneapolis in particular where the government has given permission to citizens to destroy the property and business of other citizens. The behavior of government has become intolerable.
Sep 13, 2020 12:17:14 #
I was puzzled why there is a definite push for getting the flu shot. Besides the danger of that in combination with Covid, I expect that it is so hospitals don't have to manage two public health crises at the same time. This makes total sense.
And if I required hospitalization from the flu, the last place I would want to be is in a hospital with Covid going around. So I'm getting that shot!
And if I required hospitalization from the flu, the last place I would want to be is in a hospital with Covid going around. So I'm getting that shot!
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