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Lens calibrating
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Aug 5, 2020 14:16:33   #
Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx
 
Gene51 wrote:
Lens "calibration" is best left to those trained to this with professional tools and software. While you "can" improve focus for a particular subject distance, and in the case of a zoom lens, a focal length, focusing errors are rarely linear in nature. By this I mean that a lens that has front focus issues at 10 ft may be fine at 30 ft but won't focus at infinity because of back focus. If you then consider zoom lenses, this can happen differently at various focal lengths. The problem with in-camera focus tuning is that it will only be 99% valid for one focal length and one distance - and if you really want to get technical, at one aperture, because stopping a lens down to a smaller aperture is usually accompanied by a little bit of focus shift. All of this makes fine tuning an 18-300 DX lens a task that is harder than herding cats.

So . . .

I do with my current gear what I have always done since my first 35mm SLR camera in 1967 - check for focus errors using whatever tool you prefer, then send in the camera or the lens or both if you suspect both are contributing to errors - to the mfgr's repair service. In the old days things were easier - you could ensure that the mirror and the groundglass, focusing screen and lens mount were correctly aligned, and the lens was physically able to actually focus at infinity - and that was it. With rangefinder cameras it was a little dicier because of the coupling between the rangefinder focusing system and the lens - but it could still be tuned. These days in addition to some of the above, there are focus sensor alignment, focus sensor mapping and a host of other things that a simple in-camera focus tune is not able to address.

The goal is to be able to use any lens on any camera at any focal length and at any distance. With 18 lenses and 5 camera bodies I can't be bothered individually tuning each lens to each of my camera bodies.
However, if your camera(s) and lens(es) are tuned correctly to a known standard - then swapping lenses between multiple bodies becomes a piece of cake. Keep in mind that the fine tune utility in the camera is just a focus offset - it is not magic. if your 18-300mm lens is front focusing at 300mm and you introduce a focus offset to fix it, there is a chance it may not focus correctly at closer or further distances, or at different focal lengths.

None of the literature from Nikon or Canon suggest using their in-camera focus tuning for a permanent solution to focusing errors, btw.
Lens "calibration" is best left to those... (show quote)


There is a little bit of a learning curve to tuning, but once you understand it, it's fairly easy to do, just takes time and patience. CO nailed it in that there is a quick and easy way to see if your lens / camera calibration is off by comparing the focus you get in the viewfinder (phase detect AF) to the focus you get in Live View (contrast AF). This will tell you if you have an issue. Using a tuning target like the Spyderlenscal or lensalign will tell you if it's back focusing or front focusing. The D500 has an AF fine-tune feature that allows you to make an adjustment for each Nikon lens you have separately. With Nikon zooms, their quality control is so good you only need to adjust one point at a longer focal length and the lens will be in tune throughout. It's a different story with 3rd party zooms, but that's for another day.

I talked to a tech at a camera repair store about calibrating. He charges $95 per lens for tuning if your camera has the feature. I've checked all my glass (well over a dozen) and tuned as necessary (Nikon, Tamron and Sigma) with good results. Saved myself a bunch of money and I am very confident I am getting the most out of my camera bodies and lenses. If my images are soft or blurry, I know it's me, not my gear.

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Aug 5, 2020 15:39:27   #
Grahame Loc: Fiji
 
dyximan wrote:
Here is one


The Nikon ViewNX software that came with your camera can show the position of the 'Focus Point'.

This can be a useful aid to comparing those shots that came out in focus and those that did not when diagnosing problems.

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Aug 5, 2020 15:56:19   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Nalu wrote:
One of the things I don’t miss about my now replaced Canon gear was the need to fine tune my lenses with various bodies. I always wondered whether I was getting the best out of my lenses. I don’t have to do that with my Sony gear.

Sorry, just had to say it.


That’s the “conventional wisdom” but interesting that the Sony has a microfocus adjustment and an ap note on using it if it’s not necessary for MILCs. There’s a recent thread on the subject: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-658261-1.html

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Aug 5, 2020 16:11:35   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
TriX wrote:
Interesting that the Sony has a microfocus adjustment and an ap note on using it if it’s not necessary for MILCs. There’s a recent thread on the subject: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-658261-1.html


The Sony being Micro Adjusted in that thread is an a99ii... That's a DSLR (a-mount). Not a MILC (e-mount).

I don't use them, but can't imagine any of the Sony e-mount MILC have the MFA feature. It's only needed when the AF sensor array and the image sensor are on different planes. In MILC they are one and the same, focusing sensors are embedded directly in the image sensor itself.... so there's no way for them to get out of adjustment.

This is true with all MILC, not just Sony. Canon's R-series and M-series, Nikon's Z-series, Fuji's X-mount and GFX-mount, Oly and Panny Micro 4/3 cameras.... all MILC work this way and have no need for MFA.

Original poster was in the wrong focusing mode (single shot rather than continuous). That's why the image is so badly mis-focused. Single shot (AF-S in Nikon-speak) is for stationary subjects. AF-C or "continuous" focus is needed to maintain focus on a moving subject. All the lens calibration in the world ain't gonna make any difference when the wrong focus mode is used!

It's also a good question, whether or not the 18-300mm lens is quick enough focusing to track a fast moving subject like a BIF, too. In the example shown, it's certainly not "long enough" telephoto for that subject. Heavy cropping would be needed and the image would suffer.

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Aug 5, 2020 16:37:09   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Strodav wrote:
There is a little bit of a learning curve to tuning, but once you understand it, it's fairly easy to do, just takes time and patience. CO nailed it in that there is a quick and easy way to see if your lens / camera calibration is off by comparing the focus you get in the viewfinder (phase detect AF) to the focus you get in Live View (contrast AF). This will tell you if you have an issue. Using a tuning target like the Spyderlenscal or lensalign will tell you if it's back focusing or front focusing. The D500 has an AF fine-tune feature that allows you to make an adjustment for each Nikon lens you have separately. With Nikon zooms, their quality control is so good you only need to adjust one point at a longer focal length and the lens will be in tune throughout. It's a different story with 3rd party zooms, but that's for another day.

I talked to a tech at a camera repair store about calibrating. He charges $95 per lens for tuning if your camera has the feature. I've checked all my glass (well over a dozen) and tuned as necessary (Nikon, Tamron and Sigma) with good results. Saved myself a bunch of money and I am very confident I am getting the most out of my camera bodies and lenses. If my images are soft or blurry, I know it's me, not my gear.
There is a little bit of a learning curve to tunin... (show quote)


Cameras with Focus Fine Tune let you save multiple lens profiles.It is not unique to the D500. And you can use CO's method (which is the one I use as well) to determine front or back focus.

I check focus on new cameras/lenses or when I suspect something has changed, and I use Fine Tune to see how badly it is off and in which direction. Once, I had a "new to me" camera body that I thought was ok, but was off a bit. I took it out for a session at an air show, and was completely disappointed with the early in the day results. Auto Fine Tune helped tpo get me through the day, but I got much better results, consistent for distances and focal length (it was a zoom) when I sent the camera into Nikon for adjustment, since I was 100% sure it was the body and not the lens. They questioned my request, and required me to provide them the lens I had noticed the problem with, which I did, but made them swear not to touch the lens - which was fine on all my other cameras. When I got the camera back it was 100% - just like the other D800 I had. And the D700, and the D3S etc.

I took a slightly different approach with my Sigma Sport 150-600 because I can use the dock to fine tune the lens at 4 different focal lengths and at 4 different distances, but I've found that after half a day of testing, the stock tuning on my copy is fine - on each of my bodies - so I the old adage applies - if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

FYI, here is some language from a Nikon site:

"AF tuning is not recommended in most situations and may interfere with normal focus; use only when required.

Service note: If your lens has a focus problem you should return it to Nikon Service as AF Fine-Tune is not intended to solve optical problems which will generally be outside of scope for this tool. If you have a focus problem which is always present with different lenses then this would indicate a camera setting issue or that the camera has received impact damage which is causing general defocus problems. Again return it to service."


https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/eu/BV_article?articleNo=000006300&configured=1&lang=en_GB

As I said, Auto Fine Tune is a simple focus offset, and as such is NOT suggested to fix focus issues on a permanent basis. It may seem fine but it usually isn't. The tech is going to tell you to Auto Fine Tune at $95 per lens, but he's not doing you any favors and he is getting $95/lens that you take to him. What he should be doing is addressing the issues in your camera(s) so that you can avoid using the focus offset feature. Or, addressing the problem in the lens(es) so that you don't have to fine tune all the cameras to a lens with a focus problem.

I've had this discussion face to face with the service reps at Nikon in Melville NY - and I trust them. So far they have not let me down. And they have saved me a small fortune that I might have spent fine tuning all my lenses and cameras.

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Aug 5, 2020 18:05:14   #
bleirer
 
TriX wrote:
That’s the “conventional wisdom” but interesting that the Sony has a microfocus adjustment and an ap note on using it if it’s not necessary for MILCs. There’s a recent thread on the subject: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-658261-1.html


Looks like that is for a certain adaptor. This article says sony lenses can't be micro adjusted.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00020785

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Aug 5, 2020 18:09:26   #
BDHender
 
I use Focal the computerized focus checking system. I tested 5 lenses on my Z7 and Z6. Four of the five showed zero correction on both cameras. Both cameras indicated a -1 for the 5th lens. That lens was using the F adapter. That much correction is basically inconsequential. I have used the system with a D810 and a D500 both of which required much more correction. Since the mirrorless cameras were so consistent it makes me believe that system is outstanding in finding errors whether they are in the camera or the lens. It is also relatively quick and easy to use.

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Aug 5, 2020 18:11:31   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
amfoto1 wrote:
The Sony being Micro Adjusted in that thread is an a99ii... That's a DSLR (a-mount). Not a MILC (e-mount).

I don't use them, but can't imagine any of the Sony e-mount MILC have the MFA feature. It's only needed when the AF sensor array and the image sensor are on different planes. In MILC they are one and the same, focusing sensors are embedded directly in the image sensor itself.... so there's no way for them to get out of adjustment.

This is true with all MILC, not just Sony. Canon's R-series and M-series, Nikon's Z-series, Fuji's X-mount and GFX-mount, Oly and Panny Micro 4/3 cameras.... all MILC work this way and have no need for MFA.

Original poster was in the wrong focusing mode (single shot rather than continuous). That's why the image is so badly mis-focused. Single shot (AF-S in Nikon-speak) is for stationary subjects. AF-C or "continuous" focus is needed to maintain focus on a moving subject. All the lens calibration in the world ain't gonna make any difference when the wrong focus mode is used!

It's also a good question, whether or not the 18-300mm lens is quick enough focusing to track a fast moving subject like a BIF, too. In the example shown, it's certainly not "long enough" telephoto for that subject. Heavy cropping would be needed and the image would suffer.
The Sony being Micro Adjusted in that thread is an... (show quote)


Thanks Alan, didn’t occur to me that the A99II wasn’t MILC - Duh!

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Aug 5, 2020 18:16:10   #
CO
 
Strodav wrote:
With Nikon zooms, their quality control is so good you only need to adjust one point at a longer focal length and the lens will be in tune throughout. It's a different story with 3rd party zooms, but that's for another day.


I have found that to be the case also. I have three Nikon zoom lenses and they are all very consistent throughout the entire zoom range. I rented the Tamron 100-400mm f/4.5-6.3 not long ago. It focused very accurately around 100mm and 400mm but was off considerably in the middle of the zoom range. I think if I purchased the lens, I would get Tamron's TAP-in console to do fine tuning at different focal lengths.

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Aug 5, 2020 19:03:26   #
CO
 
clherms wrote:
CO:

Can you tell me how you use the Spyder....like the steps you walk through to use it? I would imagine it's the same for greyscale? I have always wondered. Thank you!

Cynthia


You put the camera in AF-S mode and select single AF point. You focus on the square to the left of the tilted scale. Use a large aperture setting as that will produce a more shallow depth of field. The shallow depth of field makes it easier to see what is in focus and what is out of focus on the scale. Ideally, the zero on the scale should be in the best focus.

I did some testing a while back when I got my Tamron 10-24 ultrawide lens. It has enormous depth of field and it was impossible to really see if it was back or front focusing on the SpyderLensCal. I was also checking my Nikon 16-85mm lens. The longer focal lengths produce a more shallow depth of field and make it possible to see back or front focusing tendencies. I made this diptych in Photoshop of photos I took with both lenses. Notice on the right image that the zero is in good focus and it gradually becomes out of focus going towards the six.


(Download)

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Aug 5, 2020 19:25:32   #
CO
 
dyximan wrote:
I read a post a little while back about Lind's calibrating and some software focus 1 or something like that. I have a nikon D 500 with the 16 to 80DX lands and the 18 to 300 DX lens. I use the 18 to 300 extensively and it actually has begun to get Lens creep. I can live with that that just shows you how much I use it but I took some recent photos of a bird in flight bald Eagle in very few were in focus looking for suggestions and help software firmware programs etc or do you just suggest that you send the lands in to nikon and have them calibrate it. As I understand it is sometimes best to have it calibrated with the body as well. Any and all advice or suggestions would be appreciated except of course the snarky ones. Thank you in advance for your help.
I read a post a little while back about Lind's cal... (show quote)


Another option is to use the automatic AF fine tuning feature of your D500. I have used it on my D500 and it works great. No target is needed. It can be done in the field. Nikon has the steps here:

https://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_solutions/d500_tips/af/auto_af_fine-tuning/

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Aug 5, 2020 20:00:45   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
This is one area where Gene (who is a much better photographer and has the work to prove it) and I will have to agree to disagree as this has been discussed many times before. The quoted sentence from Nikon is not the complete story and is actually a disclaimer to prevent amateurs without proper tools from screwing up their focus by casually dialing in a correction. Here is the rest of the preamble from the Nikon Ap note:

“Professional photographers sometimes require an extra level of ultra-fine AF tuning. This feature allows you to fine-tune and register the autofocus position for multiple lens models, then apply the compensation whenever the lens is attached. It's important to remember that AF Fine-Tune is an adjustment specific to the camera and lens combination under test. The adjustment has to be repeated should you need to adjust another lens with the same camera body or another camera body and lens combination.”

Obviously since Nikon and Canon and Sony and 3rd Party lens manufactures with calibration “docks” all provide MFA and ap notes for adjusting it, there are both some cases where it is necessary and a value IF you want to get 100% acuity from the lens you just paid many hundreds or thousands of $ for. I will grant that 95% may be good enough, and if you’ve never utilized the MFA, your images may be excellent, but without trying it and testing against the uncorrected value, how would you know if it can be better? Let me just mention again how both the camera and lens may be within tolerance, but the combination, where each is near the max tolerance but in different directions, can be out of tolerance as a system, or reference the huge number of professionals that use this feature to calibrate every lens, of the number of posts of UHH members that have calibrated lenses and seen improved acuity. The reader will have to decide if $70 and 5 minutes per lens is too much investment to get that last 5-10% out of your investment in sharpness. It has been suggested that a calibration is only correct at a certain distance, so I have tested this, and you can see the results in the link below. You’ll notice that the calibration is relatively consistent across the entire focusing range and in all cases is substantially better than the uncorrected value.

Regarding sending your camera and/or lens to the factory service center for calibration, there are some very real issues with this approach. In addition to the cost and delay and the potential shipping damage or a shock that will render the calibration useless, there is the problem (as I have encountered after sending a lens to Canon that required +13 MFA) that the lens will be returned as “within specs”, even though it is not 100%. I’ve had this exact conversation with the Canon tech. Of course, you could have them adjust the camera/lens combination to be spot on, but then, the camera will be incorrect with other lenses. In the end, you either settle for all the components to be “within specs”, but never perfectly matched as can be obtained with accurate calibration, or you invest in a system such as FoCal which will not only calibrate your lenses to your camera, but also provide graphs of acuity vs aperture which will not only graphically show you the “sweet spot” of your lens (it is not always 2 stops down from wide open), but immediately tell you if the lens is up to par:
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-508300-1.html

For some further reading, here is the ap note from Lens Rentals on the subject, a company that handles thousands of lenses and may just have some worthwhile information: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/01/how-to-use-af-microadjustment-on-your-camera/

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Aug 5, 2020 22:02:58   #
dyximan
 
Understood rook. But perhaps I should have Emphasized the BIF aspect as the stationary objects I don't have such a short period of time to adjust isn't so much the problem. So maybe it was more of an auto focus and/or focus question then a calibration question

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Aug 5, 2020 22:21:38   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
[quote=Gene51]Lens "calibration" is best left to those trained to this with professional tools and software.

Gene51, thank you sincerely for the "cold shower splash of reality" on the work I have done trying to fine tune my focus (Nikon Df (2)). Sincerely, really. I think maybe I should reset to zero and test some shots at distance and then decide to forget about it, ship the two bodies and some lenses to Nikon, or just go back to snapshots and sell the FF gear. I'm not a "real photographer" anyway. I initially stopped 35mm because of eyesight and focus issues with slow chrome pictures. Got tired of my kids telling me that my pix were out of focus. Now it seems the auto focus and DSLRs aren't an easy cure either. Thit!

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Aug 5, 2020 23:04:48   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
TriX wrote:
This is one area where Gene (who is a much better photographer and has the work to prove it) and I will have to agree to disagree as this has been discussed many times before. The quoted sentence from Nikon is not the complete story and is actually a disclaimer to prevent amateurs without proper tools from screwing up their focus by casually dialing in a correction. Here is the rest of the preamble from the Nikon Ap note:

“Professional photographers sometimes require an extra level of ultra-fine AF tuning. This feature allows you to fine-tune and register the autofocus position for multiple lens models, then apply the compensation whenever the lens is attached. It's important to remember that AF Fine-Tune is an adjustment specific to the camera and lens combination under test. The adjustment has to be repeated should you need to adjust another lens with the same camera body or another camera body and lens combination.”

Obviously since Nikon and Canon and Sony and 3rd Party lens manufactures with calibration “docks” all provide MFA and ap notes for adjusting it, there are both some cases where it is necessary and a value IF you want to get 100% acuity from the lens you just paid many hundreds or thousands of $ for. I will grant that 95% may be good enough, and if you’ve never utilized the MFA, your images may be excellent, but without trying it and testing against the uncorrected value, how would you know if it can be better? Let me just mention again how both the camera and lens may be within tolerance, but the combination, where each is near the max tolerance but in different directions, can be out of tolerance as a system, or reference the huge number of professionals that use this feature to calibrate every lens, of the number of posts of UHH members that have calibrated lenses and seen improved acuity. The reader will have to decide if $70 and 5 minutes per lens is too much investment to get that last 5-10% out of your investment in sharpness. It has been suggested that a calibration is only correct at a certain distance, so I have tested this, and you can see the results in the link below. You’ll notice that the calibration is relatively consistent across the entire focusing range and in all cases is substantially better than the uncorrected value.

Regarding sending your camera and/or lens to the factory service center for calibration, there are some very real issues with this approach. In addition to the cost and delay and the potential shipping damage or a shock that will render the calibration useless, there is the problem (as I have encountered after sending a lens to Canon that required +13 MFA) that the lens will be returned as “within specs”, even though it is not 100%. I’ve had this exact conversation with the Canon tech. Of course, you could have them adjust the camera/lens combination to be spot on, but then, the camera will be incorrect with other lenses. In the end, you either settle for all the components to be “within specs”, but never perfectly matched as can be obtained with accurate calibration, or you invest in a system such as FoCal which will not only calibrate your lenses to your camera, but also provide graphs of acuity vs aperture which will not only graphically show you the “sweet spot” of your lens (it is not always 2 stops down from wide open), but immediately tell you if the lens is up to par:
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-508300-1.html

For some further reading, here is the ap note from Lens Rentals on the subject, a company that handles thousands of lenses and may just have some worthwhile information: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/01/how-to-use-af-microadjustment-on-your-camera/
This is one area where Gene (who is a much better ... (show quote)


Perfection is the enemy of very good. I am fine with very good. And then there is this, from your link to LensRentals:

"Prime lenses are generally the easiest to deal with. When it comes to zooms, you may be a little more limited. Most current Canon cameras that have the AFMA function can now adjust for both ends of the zoom, with a corresponding W and T setting. If an adjustment for each end is not available in your camera, you can either adjust for the end you use the most, or find a compromise you can live with. I’ve seen zooms where one end was fine, and the other was off, or both ends were off different amounts in the same direction, or both ends were off in different directions. There’s often no universal solution, unfortunately.

When it comes to 35mm and 50mm primes, you’ll often find that making an adjustment at shorter focus distances may cause longer distances to be off. It’s not that other lenses aren’t the same in this regard, but for some reason it seems to be more noticeable on these focal lengths. There isn’t really a good solution to this in camera, unfortunately. You’ll want to make your adjustments fit your needs, which may be difficult with some lenses. But if you have the Sigma Art series lenses and the Sigma USB Dock, you can actually adjust for both closer distances and longer distances. The dock and related software allow for four adjustments at four different distances with those Art (A1) series lenses. On Sigma A1 zooms, you can make those four distance adjustments at four different focal lengths, for a total of 16 possible adjustments! It’s time consuming, but if you want everything as spot on as possible, this is really the way to go.

The example above needed a moderate adjustment, +9. Larger adjustments aren’t indicative of something faulty, though. On very rare occasions you may find a lens is beyond adjustment. I once owned a Nikon 20 f/2.8D that was like that. I ended up selling it to someone who had zero issues with it on their camera. If you own a lens that’s beyond adjustment, you can either do what I did, or you may be able to send your lens and camera to the manufacturer to have them adjust it for you, as long as both lens and camera are from the same manufacturer. Just know that adjustment won’t be free."


Digging a little deeper, sometimes pros need to make field adjustments, require the use of a "deliberate focus offset" or some other reasons. This is the language from Nikon's D4S tips, so I am pretty sure they are not targeting the advice at amateurs:

"If you find that certain lenses do not produce the desired results with autofocus, you can fine-tune autofocus for each lens using the AF fine‐tune option in the setup menu. AF tuning can also be used to offset focus from its normal position for a deliberate defocus effect. Note that AF tuning is not normally required and may interfere with normal focus; use only when necessary."

https://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_solutions/d4s_tips/af_fine-tuning/

Similar language appears in Canon's guidance on the 1DMIII, another pro camera:

https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART123408&cat=0901e02480110d75&actp=LIST

https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART136230&impressions=false&viewlocale=en_US

Your interpretation of the language of the page I initially referred to is interesting - but must be taken in context with the entire article, which is why I posted the link to it.

I like this article below for its thoroughness from a practical perspective. In it there are links to other stuff he's written. Very informative. And it explains some of the gotchas that come with fine tuning in the camera - most importantly, it assumes that the lens is perfectly calibrated - which is not always the case, and you are not likely know where the problem is unless you have multiple camera bodies. Which is why I test each piece of gear when the results I get start to look off. I suspect that a pro uses af-fine tune a little differently than an amateur.

https://photographylife.com/how-to-calibrate-lenses

BTW - I took these a few years ago with an uncalibrated 3rd party lens on an uncalibrated camera - all hand held. Do I really need to worry if my lens and camera is not 100%? I am certainly not losing any sleep over it.

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