Let's do the numbers: There are about 200,000,000 (200 million) working age adults in the US. Let's suppose that they all decided to be hard-working, lift-yourself-by-the-bootstraps...

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

There are about 200,000,000 (200 million) working age adults in the US. Let's suppose that they all decided to be hard-working, lift-yourself-by-the-bootstraps Ayn Randian Republicans, and each struggled to earn $1,000,000 per year. Nothing greedy, just a mere million dollars a year.

That would result in gross income of $200,000,000,000,000 which comes out to $200 trillion dollars per year.

Small problem: Our gross national product is a mere $15 trillion per year.

So... where's the money coming from? How can all those hardworking, well-deserved people earn their million dollars?

And who's going to become a teacher, a policeman, a fireman, a waiter, a trash collector, an agricultural worker, a truck driver, a retail sales clerk, an electrician, a plumber, or any of a vast number of other occupations if they can't earn their million dollars a year that way, no matter how hard they work?

Inquiring minds want to know.

donrent Loc: Punta Gorda , Fl

And this is why the "none left behind" program is redicous..

KG

Quote:

Small problem: Our gross national product is a mere $15 trillion per year.

So... where's the money coming from?

Your premise is silly.

The GDP (more appropriate for your point than GNP, but really doesn't matter here) is not some limited piggy bank from which the money is drawn. It is the measure of the country's output. So if people's incomes increased (along with their consumption) so would the GDP.

sarge69 Loc: Ft Myers, FL

Wouldn't it be affected by the fact the products they are buying are made overseas ? Also their money is banked overseas ?

You don't think they are going to spend a dollar more on an item because it's U.S. made do you?

Sarge69

KG

sarge69 wrote:

Wouldn't it be affected by the fact the products they are buying are made overseas ? Also their money is banked overseas ?

That's a completely different point than what the OP posted. And I don't think there are many (any) economists who could accurately predict what would happen.

I was simply pointing out that GDP/GNP is not some mystical budget/limit set in stone. It's a measure of what had actually happened (or an estimate if talking about projections). So using it as an argument for proclaiming that we can't all make more money because we would exceed past GDP/GNP is ridiculous.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

You're kind of missing the point. There's no way the economy could support numbers like that, in terms of current dollars. The resources for such an economy don't exist. Neither does the infrastructure. It doesn't matter whether the goods are made in the USA or in Bangladesh. The pie would have to be about 15 times bigger than it is. And it would have to be divided up in even slices, assuming everyone was virtuous and hardworking. Most people do work hard, or would if the jobs were there. But they could stand on their head and spit wooden nickels, and they still wouldn't be able to earn $1,000,000 a year.

KG

Quote:

You're kind of missing the point.

I wasn't arguing with the rest of your "point" because it's hard to take you seriously after reading what you posted.

The rest of your post would have been fine on its own merit without an attempt to bring "simple math" into it.

Just an observation: FOX likes to do it by trying to "illustrate" something they are arguing against with numbers that quite often don't make sense. I guess people on the left do it too :)

gmcase Loc: Galt's Gulch

Perfect example of a false dilemma.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

KG wrote:

I wasn't arguing with the rest of your "point" because it's hard to take you seriously after reading what you posted.

The rest of your post would have been fine on its own merit without an attempt to bring "simple math" into it.

Just an observation: FOX likes to do it by trying to "illustrate" something they are arguing against with numbers that quite often don't make sense. I guess people on the left do it too :)

What's wrong with the math? It's certainly at least as valid as writing off 47 percent of the population, many of whom would be happy to work for $50,000 a year, much less $1,000,000.

There is an attitude that is widely prevalent that there's something wrong with people who don't earn tons of money. They're lazy, dependent, defective in some way. I'm raising some questions about that attitude, including the minor difficulty that the resources do not exist.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

gmcase wrote:

Perfect example of a false dilemma.

Please clarify.

gmcase Loc: Galt's Gulch

RMM wrote:

gmcase wrote:

Perfect example of a false dilemma.

Please clarify.

I think you should revisit the issue and think it through. False dilemma fits perfectly.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

gmcase wrote:

RMM wrote:

gmcase wrote:

Perfect example of a false dilemma.

Please clarify.

I think you should revisit the issue and think it through. False dilemma fits perfectly.

And still no clarification.

KG

RMM wrote:

That would result in gross income of $200,000,000,000,000 which comes out to $200 trillion dollars per year.

Small problem: Our gross national product is a mere $15 trillion per year.

So... where's the money coming from?

KG wrote:

I was simply pointing out that GDP/GNP is not some mystical budget/limit set in stone. It's a measure of what had actually happened (or an estimate if talking about projections). So using it as an argument for proclaiming that we can't all make more money because we would exceed past GDP/GNP is ridiculous.

Do you think money comes from GDP/GNP somehow?
Do you realize that your statement doesn't make any sense?
Care to respond to this bit without diverting as you've been doing so far?

I'm not arguing about making a million dollars or about teachers and firemen or whatever. Nor did I ever say anything about 47%.

KG

RMM wrote:

And still no clarification.

There won't be. It's not a false dilemma :)

But have fun observing how he'll try to divert away from having to admit that what he posted makes no sense. Kind of like what you are doing :)

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

KG wrote:

Do you think money comes from GDP/GNP somehow?
Do you realize that your statement doesn't make any sense?
Care to respond to this bit without diverting as you've been doing so far?

I'm not arguing about making a million dollars or about teachers and firemen or whatever. Nor did I ever say anything about 47%.

Money doesn't come from GDP/GNP, those are measures of what is produced in goods and services. GDP/GNP would have to be 15 times larger than it is if everyone who was willing to work hard could earn $1,000,000 per year. The pie isn't, nor can it be, that big. Nonetheless, it's going to be divided up, however large it is.

I haven't been diverting anything, just posing some questions. And I realize you never said anything about the 47 percent. Just to get ahead of the curve, nor am I accusing you of anything.

What I'm questioning is what I think is an unrealistic attitude about wealth, the willingness to work hard, what it takes to create opportunity, and some of the whys and wherefores about pie slicing. And pie in the sky, for that matter.