robertneger

I haven't developed film in 20 years. From advise that I received on Ugly Hedgehog, I decided to keep my darkroom. Through the kindness of an UH contributor, I now have a cable release that works on my old 8 x 10 camera. I have 8 x 10 film in their holders for 20 plus years- to shoot the old film on not to shoot? It was kept in a cool basement- The film is T- Max 100. I would assume that new chemicals are mandatory? Any suggestions on the best chemicals for T- Max 100 film and for developing the 8 x 10 contact prints is appreciated. Suggestions on the best place to order chemicals on line? Also, I heard that a green safe light in the darkroom allows some visualization of the image during the film developing - true of false?
Thanks,
Ace

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

When I had my darkroom I never used a safelight when working on film. Prints, yes. I think the film is more sensitive than the print emulsion.

And some chemicals might be ok if they're in powder form, but probably not if mixed. However, I would not risk it.

That was probably 60 years ago.

MrPhotog

After half the developing time you can use a green safelight to check the development. I believe it is a Wratten 3 filter in the safelight, with an appropriate bulb.

While it is a possibility, think of it as a novelty.

I used this for a while many years ago and found it of little or no value.

You need to acquire an eye for what a partially developed negative looks like in order to decide whether to let the development proceed to its original time, or to increase the developing time. Until the film is fixed (obviously after the developing process has ended) the antihalation backing on the film is dense and translucent, making it difficult to evaluate the negative’s density.

Exposure to the green light does add a small amount of background fog level, which gets worse with longer exposure, so keep your examination time brief.

Unspooling 35mm film and even holding it between my eye and the safelight, gave me little help. Respooling was a mess, of course.

The dark green filter is extremely dark—nowhere near as bright as the safelight used in printing and enlarging.

Commercial photo labs have sometimes used far infrared light coupled with infrared video cameras to monitor film development from outside the tank.

With sheet film, waste a sheet on a test shot and cut it into 4 pieces. Pick a development time—let us say 10 minutes. Measure the temperature accurately. Start one piece of film at 20 minutes (twice the estimate) 5 minutes later add the second piece, after another 5 minutes add the third for the estimated remaining 10 minutes, and finally add the last quarter after 2 more minutes so it gets 8 minutes in the developer. Pull out all 4 pieces at the same time and use a fresh acid stopbath to arrest the development quickly, then fix normally.
If your development time is 7 or 8 minutes, or something else, then the ratios for testing are 200%, 150%, normal, and 80% of your estimated development time.

If you have a grayscale, include that in your test shot.

Cany143 Loc: SE Utah

Whoa, jeez! Its been a lot of years and I don't have access to any of the 'formulas' that were used, but in the lab I worked (as a b&w printer, not as a film developer), when out-of-date b&w films needed to be developed, they used an addition of precise amounts of sodium sulfite in the developer to prevent fogging. Fairly arcane stuff, to be sure, but information can likely still be found (Google? Yale University's A/V lab?) that addresses that sort of thing. Realistically, MrPhotog's answer (above) will likely be as useful an answer as any you'll get.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

If you go with the TMax film, I would probably start with TMax developer which comes in a liquid form. Everything said about the dark green filter above is accurate, including the fact that it is barely visible, even when your eyes are dark adapted and hardly worth the trouble unless you are very skilled at evaluating the negative very quickly. Personally, I would just use good time and temperature controls and do the appropriate testing to arrive at the proper developing time and forget the safelight.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Development by inspection is not an easy task. The appropriate very dark green filter over a 55-watt safelight requires the night vision of a cat or an owl at least until you get used to interpreting the very fain image you will be able to see at the prescribed distance and time allowable before fog occurs. The few times I did this procedure I used a chemical de-sensitizer which, at the time, was made by Kodak for this purpose.

Speaking of fog, the old film may have already have attained a fog level that will make this entire exercise a futile effort. If you want to recommission your large format camera you can obtain some fresh film, expose it correctly and develop it by time and temperature. Tray development is feasible but it needs to be done carefully, at first, one sheet at a time, especially in the 8x10 size. The wet film is easily damaged and attempts to handle too mad sheets will cause scratches, agitation issues and, the sheets Kling g to each other. Use a develop that requires a moderately long time- 6 or 8 minutes at 68 degrees F. is a good run. Shorter developing times can cause streaking and uneven development in a tray. Continuous gentle agitation is required. I don't know offhand which developers are still available- a liquid concentrate like HC-110 offers various dilutions. You'll need a stop bath made wit a very dilute acetic acid, and a good rapid fixer with hardener. If you can score an old Kodak try siphon, you will have a good washing facility. Photo Flo solution will facilitate scratch-free air drying.

Unless you have an 8x10 enlarger you can make contact prints or scan the negatives. Many film scanner can not do an 8x10 negative in one bite- you will need to make 4 scans and lace them together. There are a few old 8x10 Elwood enlargers popping up on eBay and some of the other sites but those things are the size of a Volkswagon!

Good luck- it's gonna be a heck of a project but interesting and different!

MrPhotog

For developing agents for your film or prints, check the website at Photographers Formulary. They have bulk chemicals for those who wish to mix their own, as well as packages of loads of various formulas which they have compounded. Open the bag and dissolve. They have their own version of a T-max developer. I’ve never used it so I can’t give any references on it.

When I looked at their site I saw a reversal developer which allows developing T-max as a positive transparency. At one time some people used that in 35mm for high resolution B &W slides. Backlit 8x10 transparencies could make an interesting display.

In the past I have used Dectol (print developer) for 2 minutes at room temp (70 degrees) with just about all the cut film, 35mm and roll film emulsions I’ve ever tried. I do not endorse it for tonal range or fine grain, and it was never my ‘goto’ film developer, but I always kept a covered tray of the stuff on the table, so for quick and dirty copy negs, or a fast test shot, it has given me some kind of usable image with every emulsion I could put in it. If you just want to see if the film is viable and all you have is print developer . . .

If you are thinking of contact prints from the 8 x 10 negs, consider non silver processes. Iron based cyanotypes (blue prints), nitrogen-based diazotypes, van dyke brown prints, gold, platinum, palladium, and gum-based prints are all possible. If you want to stay with silver-based chemistry you can make gelatin-based emulsions or go with older albumin-based (egg whites) emulsions for coating high-quality fiber-based papers. Photographers formulary has materials for many of these processes. Plenty of books on alternative photographic processes.

In the ‘80s I attended a seminar on albumin prints and loved the process. Never had a chance after that to play with the process, though. You can coat your paper under fairly bright safelights.

Cyanotypes use a coating which is not very sensitive to light. You can work under indoor roomlight. You’ll need some space to let the coated paper or fabric dry before using it. Expose by contact printing in bright sunlight. Develop in running water. Simple process. Great for kids.

Coat cotton fabric if you want to sew your photos into quilt squares. Consider using the 8 x 10 as a copy camera to make large negatives of family photos and turn those into archival cyanotypes. Family photo quilt anyone?
You get a good tonal range, but the darkest shadow areas are blue with about a 20% reflectance. Not really a dark black.

mikegreenwald Loc: Illinois

Like others above, it’s been decades since I worked in my darkroom. My recollection is that until I acquired temperature stabilization, I found it impossible to get consistent results. I doubt very much that your film is still viable - probably fogged, or uneven in emulsion responsiveness. I believe the recommendation above to test run a few times until you learn what works and what doesn’t is the best answer.
I’d love to hear how things work out for you - I still have a complete color darkroom, now lodged in the basement and covered in dust, but still think about resurrecting it.

Blair Shaw Jr Loc: Dunnellon,Florida

Blair Shaw Jr Loc: Dunnellon,Florida

Yes indeed.

edrobinsonjr Loc: Boise, Idaho

When I was in highschool I worked for a portrait studio. We used 5x7 film part of my job was developing it in tanks in a small, dark room. The room had a green safelight and it took around 3 minutes for my eyes to adjust. Then you saw what was just over a shadow. The safelight was hung just below the 8 foot ceiling.

Hope this helps...

Ed

Steved3604

If you wanted me to bet "dinner and drinks" on the results of your 20 year old T-Max film with cool storage; I would bet pretty good results with some base fog. You always fight age, heat and radiation. 20 years is about on the outside edge without storage in a freezer and lead bag. The fact that you are putting an image on now and developing now is better than a 20 year old negative with a 20 year old exposure. You can try some "anti-fog" chemicals. T-Max developer or HC-110 would be my developer choice. Enjoy. 8x10 is big negative and produces super results. Also, I wouldn't take any "important" pix on the old film -- but you should be able to get your darkroom "groove" back.

Timmers Loc: San Antonio Texas.

I will now piss off the guys on here, don't listen to them, they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. That said here is one of the great test questions for the supposed expert...
Why ae there some sheet film holders made from wood with cold rolled steel dark slides? I though film holders were made from layers of dark red card stock in the old days and from black Bakelite? Mostly correct, is the answer, Bakelite is used because it is flexable, light tight mostly (a treated version of Backalite is made to stop infrared radiation, this dark slide is identified by 5 raised dimples on the silver pull top edge of the dark slide), and the fact that Bakealite will not conduct electric fields (static electricity) to guard against electric discharges to the film as well as not attracting dust. So what is the advantage of a cold roll steel dark slide? The Backalite dark slide will NOT pull in extremely cold weather with the presents of high humidity (fog banks in winter) while the cold rolled steel dark slide will pull easily. That is why they exist. Few photographers know about this.

Now, tray processing of 'film' was a tradition that existed in the time when ALL sheet film was glass plate. Glass plate was heavy and sank easily, flexible film is frankly a pain in the ass to tray process and is best called 'OLD SCHOOL'. Donny tray process, its a dumb way to process film. Look at the rotary print processors used to develop color prints in a home darkroom. You can get tubes for 8X10 up to 16X20 and do several sheets at a time. There were motor bases made for these. If you get one and it has a setting for reversing or continuous, leave it on reversing only as it delivers better results. BUT, the best is a product called Bitz Tubes. These were developed by Brian Miketin of San Antonio Texas and later he sold the hole thing to some guy in the far west (Colorado?), I forget. I have used the 4X5 and 8X10 tubes, in fact I helped Brian develop the tubes. Super easy to use and fun to use!

Last question was about deep green filters to do film development by inspection. It does not work unless you de-sensatize the film. Kodak made a super pricey de-sentsatizer, expensive and did not keep well after until use. By enlarge a pretty silly product. So, where did this all come from? You got to do some vary deep research to make it work but it will work and work well. Resurrect Amidol (Kodak called it Arcol), and you will find a deep rabbit hole. Be prepared to enjoy the journey! Now a word of caution, the REAL Amidol is an organic agent 2,4, diaminophenol dihydrochloride also sold in the hydrochloride state. Now, here comes the curve ball, in 1932 a synthetic substitute was introduced and is not really Amidol. It is so common that most everyone has it and uses it! It is the antioxadizing component used in un-leaded gasoline! BUT, it aint traditional Amidol (that organic agent, 2,4, diaminophenol dihydrochloride). Amidol has weird qualities as a reducing agent, so weird that it is considered for a huge amount of resaurch. ASfter it is 'excused as a reducing agent it can be combined with another chemical and used a film desensitizer that was the original method for use with that green darkroom filter for visual inspection during processing. BUT, in modern film processing the mechanical area inferred googles were used to monitor the films progress by lab personal.

Steved3604

Forgot to mention that I would probably overexpose (1/4 to 1/2 stop or more) and under-develop (maybe 5-10 percent or more) on the first couple of sheets and then adjust the exposure and developing on the balance of the sheets -- if all stored the same. Or you can just shoot and develop by Kodak specs for T Max 100, and then adjust exposure and developing. For test sheets I would do an outdoor sunny day with the light falling on the subject. Also, gray card, white sheet and black velvet in the shot with a person will help judge the exposure and developing. It is good that this is 100 speed film and not higher ISO. The lower the speed -- the better the long term keeping of the film and the better (less) the age fog. Good Luck.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

This admonition from a “supposed expert” that has single-handily posted more out of focus and poorly composed and exposed images than everyone else on the forum combined.

Your history and technical information is interesting (even though your contention that Bakelite will not allow the build up of static electricity is erroneous - insulators such as plastics and Bakelite are in fact the best surface to store a static electric charge on), but your insults to successful working professionals such as E.L. are beyond objectionable, they’re just plain silly coming from a self proclaimed “artist” with beginner level technical skills (and that’s a compliment). Save your response, now unwatching.