Lyrids produce a new puzzle.
Apr 21, 2020 11:37:22 #
saidel42
Loc: NJ
This is a fun puzzle to me. I took the pictures that I used for this 3 part image last evening (or this morning). Details: Nikon D7100, Rokinon F2.8, 14mm, ISO 3200, 20 sec exposure, location: Tabernacle, NJ. Time: left 1AM; right: 2:10 AM.
Post-processing: PS3 with a change in levels and reduction of red and yellow in hue option.
Left image: (do expand the image). My interpretation: the bottom red arrow points to an explosion when the meteorite hit the atmosphere. The meteorite broke up into 3 pieces at the middle red arrow (one of which immediately burnt up) and the two remaining parts extinguished themselves at the top arrow.
Is there another interpretation?
The middle image highlights the bright star at the middle red arrow of the left image to illustrate that the bottom bright spot at the bottom red arrow (left) is not usually present.
The right image is similar. I think the blue arrow points either to the entry of the meteorite or the extinction of it. I tend to think the former. I have at least 2 more separate images from different times like the one on the right.
I wonder if the little explosions(?) producing the bright spots are the thing that makes my eyes flick when looking up but not seeing a classic trail.
Post-processing: PS3 with a change in levels and reduction of red and yellow in hue option.
Left image: (do expand the image). My interpretation: the bottom red arrow points to an explosion when the meteorite hit the atmosphere. The meteorite broke up into 3 pieces at the middle red arrow (one of which immediately burnt up) and the two remaining parts extinguished themselves at the top arrow.
Is there another interpretation?
The middle image highlights the bright star at the middle red arrow of the left image to illustrate that the bottom bright spot at the bottom red arrow (left) is not usually present.
The right image is similar. I think the blue arrow points either to the entry of the meteorite or the extinction of it. I tend to think the former. I have at least 2 more separate images from different times like the one on the right.
I wonder if the little explosions(?) producing the bright spots are the thing that makes my eyes flick when looking up but not seeing a classic trail.
Apr 22, 2020 09:13:51 #
Are there two images here - you mention right and left images but I only see one image... I am not sure which direction the meteors were moving but they should be moving in straight lines (all my images have always been straight lines) so I think you may have some camera shake. If you look closely, I think you have two separate meteors in the 'red' section, not three - the bottom arrow is one, the middle arrow is the second, and they both end around the top arrow. Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
Apr 22, 2020 09:22:28 #
I can say I saw several explosions also. As you say, no classic tail. I did get photos of the milky way with meteors, one having two. I have a disease called Punctate Kerotitus (corneal cells flake off, painful actually) and I attributed the explosions to the disease. On the glass half full side, I'm glad someone else saw explosions, on the glass half empty, I hope you don't have my disease...your photos tell us you don't.
Apr 22, 2020 09:38:52 #
I have been thinking some more and after looking at some images of meteors I note yours have bright ends - is that something to do with shutter action or perhaps, I wonder if you captured some Starlink satellites here. Meteors tend to have pointed ends due to high velocity. I am not an expert so just giving some observations and thoughts. I'll be watching to see if someone else might have ideas that make more sense. Thanks again for the post!
Apr 22, 2020 11:30:16 #
saidel42
Loc: NJ
Hi fjwallace,
In answer to your question re 2 pictures: right and left of the middle white box are different images. Re the straight ends, I am not an astronomer...far from it (a neurobiologist of fish brains). It is possible that the left image (blown up in IrfanView) is a lucky 2 at once. I cannot discount that, but from elementary physics, seems to me that the bend in the right "element" can be more easily explained by the bottom red arrow pointing to a flare of a light (in weight) particle entering the atmosphere. It travels upward in the image taking a tiny bounce and then flaring again into 3 particles, one heading downward on a short path to flare out, and two roughly equal sized ?meteors? heading upward. At the top of the path, they both flame out at the same time because they are about the same size. I don't think the right path is a lens effect due to the left meteor because the paths are not bright at the same time.
One other possibility is that these objects are following the edge of the atmosphere (sort of like rocks skipping on the surface of water) rather than penetrating the atmosphere. Then the path would be odd compared with the normal streaks.
I don't think the effect is due to shutter action. I used the 'wifi' link to trigger the camera with the image being initiated 2 seconds after the shutter is raised. The camera was sitting on a tripod and to minimize shake, I did not raise the tripod much, so the camera was <2 feet or less to the ground, maybe ~16 inches. However, when I blow the images of the stars up to 344.2 times in IrfanView, dim stars seem round while bright stars seem to have a companion. Maybe at extreme mags, the lens has an aberration effect BUT that magnification is not necessary for the dual path of this ?meteor? so I doubt that the path is an artifact.
Hi guardineer. I'd love to see your Milky Way - meteor images. I have one like that from last year. Don't know about PK, but this I do know. We (humans) are responsive to tiny bright changes in the visual field. I find when I am looking for meteors, my eyes spontaneously tend to jump to another focal point and I feel like something was there, but could not see anything specific at the new location. These eye jumps are called 'saccades' and is a standard element of visual physiology. I wonder if the jumps I experienced are due to perceiving these little explosions which, since they do not leave a neat path to follow, disappear quickly.
But as I said earlier, I am puzzled and am making up a story to myself to explain these observation. Since it is a story, I use Occam's razor (the simplest is probably the most accurate). Despite that, I can use all the help you all care to offer to make other story options.
Bill
In answer to your question re 2 pictures: right and left of the middle white box are different images. Re the straight ends, I am not an astronomer...far from it (a neurobiologist of fish brains). It is possible that the left image (blown up in IrfanView) is a lucky 2 at once. I cannot discount that, but from elementary physics, seems to me that the bend in the right "element" can be more easily explained by the bottom red arrow pointing to a flare of a light (in weight) particle entering the atmosphere. It travels upward in the image taking a tiny bounce and then flaring again into 3 particles, one heading downward on a short path to flare out, and two roughly equal sized ?meteors? heading upward. At the top of the path, they both flame out at the same time because they are about the same size. I don't think the right path is a lens effect due to the left meteor because the paths are not bright at the same time.
One other possibility is that these objects are following the edge of the atmosphere (sort of like rocks skipping on the surface of water) rather than penetrating the atmosphere. Then the path would be odd compared with the normal streaks.
I don't think the effect is due to shutter action. I used the 'wifi' link to trigger the camera with the image being initiated 2 seconds after the shutter is raised. The camera was sitting on a tripod and to minimize shake, I did not raise the tripod much, so the camera was <2 feet or less to the ground, maybe ~16 inches. However, when I blow the images of the stars up to 344.2 times in IrfanView, dim stars seem round while bright stars seem to have a companion. Maybe at extreme mags, the lens has an aberration effect BUT that magnification is not necessary for the dual path of this ?meteor? so I doubt that the path is an artifact.
Hi guardineer. I'd love to see your Milky Way - meteor images. I have one like that from last year. Don't know about PK, but this I do know. We (humans) are responsive to tiny bright changes in the visual field. I find when I am looking for meteors, my eyes spontaneously tend to jump to another focal point and I feel like something was there, but could not see anything specific at the new location. These eye jumps are called 'saccades' and is a standard element of visual physiology. I wonder if the jumps I experienced are due to perceiving these little explosions which, since they do not leave a neat path to follow, disappear quickly.
But as I said earlier, I am puzzled and am making up a story to myself to explain these observation. Since it is a story, I use Occam's razor (the simplest is probably the most accurate). Despite that, I can use all the help you all care to offer to make other story options.
Bill
Apr 22, 2020 12:00:08 #
I don't see contact between the two trails when magnified thus my comment of two different meteors. I think these are not happening at exactly the same time - that would be quite a fluke, the path lengths are different... I have viewed showers hundreds of times and two in 20 seconds is completely normal, especially photographically. Again, the 'flame out' could be at different times - this happened over 20 seconds - the entire meteor atmospheric 'fall' (including dark flight) happens over just 3-8 seconds! That means, this part was about half of that. I also have trouble seeing how the paths after 'explosion' or contact could be nearly parallel, seems like they would go off at angles to each other...
I do macro photography and tripod and shutter action can do a lot and move the image even on a tripod. If you check online for pictures of meteor flight, you'll see they are all straight line flights so I think something moved. I also know that shutters close over time, easily seen in fast moving photography of propellers, etc. and since these are fast, I thought that might help explain the end points. Could also explain the shift in direction near these bright points - could be wrong...
Meteors in showers are about the same size, grain of sand size, except fireballs which may be as large as a small piece of gravel.
Well, just my observations and thoughts...
I do macro photography and tripod and shutter action can do a lot and move the image even on a tripod. If you check online for pictures of meteor flight, you'll see they are all straight line flights so I think something moved. I also know that shutters close over time, easily seen in fast moving photography of propellers, etc. and since these are fast, I thought that might help explain the end points. Could also explain the shift in direction near these bright points - could be wrong...
Meteors in showers are about the same size, grain of sand size, except fireballs which may be as large as a small piece of gravel.
Well, just my observations and thoughts...
Apr 22, 2020 17:34:50 #
saidel42 wrote:
This is a fun puzzle to me. I took the pictures th... (show quote)
It is pretty normal for the tail of a meteor to show a wavy trail, simply due to atmospheric movement, i.e.: wind.
bwa
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