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Three Mile Island - March 28, 1979
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Mar 29, 2020 09:41:35   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
jerryc41 wrote:
The nuclear power industry never recovered from this disaster, which took place forty-one years ago today. "The Great Courses Plus" has a brief presentation about it.


The HBO series 'Chernobyl' is a really well done and excellent series Jerry. If you ever get the chance, watch it

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Mar 29, 2020 10:22:27   #
PaulBrit Loc: Merlin, Southern Oregon
 
jsmangis wrote:
As a Journeyman Wireman and retired member of the IBEW, I spent nearly half of my 40 year career building, repairing and updating nuclear power plants in three states. As all of us who have worked in the industry know, happened at TMI was entirely human error. The proof of this is that the automatic systems eventually shut TMI Unit 2 down when the operators quit trying to override the system. American Nuclear plants are the safest in the world because they are continuously being serviced and upgraded. There are six nuclear power plants with a total of nine reactors in my state of Illinois with the oldest facility, Dresden NPS first commissioned in 1953, still operating. While we are gradually changing over to renewable power sources (wind and solar), nuclear power still provides more power to our state than all other sources combined.
As a Journeyman Wireman and retired member of the ... (show quote)


As an aside, it’s quite amazing who comes to Ugly Hedgehog and their backgrounds! I guess photography crosses most trades and backgrounds and most social sectors.

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Mar 29, 2020 10:23:34   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
TriX wrote:
Sorry, there have been NO deaths attributed to the radioactive gas release from TMI (either during or after the event) reported by reliable sources. There have been a couple of doomsday rabid anti-nuclear blogs (one in particular) that have stated that there were deaths after the event, but they are not credible unless you believe in conspiracy theories. If one doesn’t trust the NRC or want to wade through the govt. documents, Wiki has a good section on both US (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reactor_accidents_in_the_United_States) and worldwide (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_and_incidents) that is informative and comprehensive. You’ll find that there have been a handful of exposures and deaths in the US and Europe from research reactors and nuclear research, but none from a commercial power plants. What’s worth noting in both the TMI and Brown’s Ferry incidents is that the inherent safety of water moderated reactor designs and the extensive safety features worked. The plants were safely (and automatically) shut down, without injury or death.


It’s also worth noting that although tens of thousands died in the Japanese tsunami, not a single person has died from radiation from the meltdown of the Fukushima plants. Chernobyl is a different story entirely. The Russian use a different graphite moderated reactor design than other countries (which use water as a moderator). It is cheaper to build, but unlike water moderated designs, inherently unstable. That, combined with the Russian lack of a containment building (such as used in US reactors), really egregious operator error while running a test on the reactor, and initial underreporting of the accident by the Russian government led to the many past (and potentially future deaths). The Russians have a history of nuclear accidents involving their nuclear submarines as well. With respect to nuclear plant design and safety, they are an outlier in the world, and not in a good way.

Regardless of whether we want it or not, lacking some breakthrough in power production, there are probably more nuclear plants in our future. Despite advances in solar and wind power, we will still need the base generating capacity, and there is a finite limit to the amount of fossil fuel available on earth. Waste storage is certainly an issue, but can be addressed by finally opening the national nuclear waste depository.
Sorry, there have been NO deaths attributed to the... (show quote)


You seem to be up on the subject so maybe you can answer this: Why not use Proton fusion which I've read creates much less radiation than what we are using now? Is it because the chain reaction is slower and not suitable to sustain a lengthy chain reaction?

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Mar 29, 2020 10:37:24   #
Ava'sPapa Loc: Cheshire, Ct.
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Three Mile Island, Bopal India, and Chernoble all had their disasters occur around 4:00 AM, when people are at their least efficient.


I find this to be a most interesting fact, that all of these disasters occurred at 4:00.

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Mar 29, 2020 10:40:18   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
jerryc41 wrote:
The nuclear power industry never recovered from this disaster, which took place forty-one years ago today. "The Great Courses Plus" has a brief presentation about it.



The US Navy has been using nuclear power successfully since 1955 with quite a safety record. The Navy's Nuclear Power program started with submarines (USS Nautilus) and has extended to aircraft carriers, cruisers and now destroyers....guess its just a matter of scale. Having served on two nuclear powered aircraft carriers, we only had to replenish jet fuel and food supplies and never wanted for ships power, it was always there...Cheers

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Mar 29, 2020 11:09:19   #
tcthome Loc: NJ
 
joehel2 wrote:
It’s probably twice as easy to catch a two headed fish. 😊


Back a while when my parents were alive & living in PA, the Pocono Record showed deformed deer pics from deer living near the area.

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Mar 29, 2020 11:56:12   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Bridges wrote:
You seem to be up on the subject so maybe you can answer this: Why not use Proton fusion which I've read creates much less radiation than what we are using now? Is it because the chain reaction is slower and not suitable to sustain a lengthy chain reaction?


I will ask my friend, who is a nuclear physics major (US Naval Academy), ex Nuclear submarine officer (Captain) and licensed nuclear plant operator - he’s my technical expert on nuclear power. I’ll post his answer as soon as I speak with him.

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Mar 29, 2020 12:57:46   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
TriX wrote:
I will ask my friend, who is a nuclear physics major (US Naval Academy), ex Nuclear submarine officer (Captain) and licensed nuclear plant operator - he’s my technical expert on nuclear power. I’ll post his answer as soon as I speak with him.


I wonder if he at any time served with my nephew. Captain Eric Jabs retired from the Navy a few years ago after a 27 year career. He was aboard submarines for the first six years but went into administration after that and was base commander for reserve units in NH and VA. After retiring he went back to the Navy as a consultant on the repair of Naval ships. He travels to different parts of the globe and works with getting the supplies and parts needed for repair of ships in foreign ports. His degree was mechanical engineer but went to the Nuclear training school in Idaho where he did extremely well. I didn't think to ask him but he might know as well. By the way, his wife also retired as a Captain from the Navy and graduated from the Naval Academy. Maybe he knew her. Her name at that time would have been Kathleen Toomy.

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Mar 29, 2020 13:15:05   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Bridges wrote:
I wonder if he at any time served with my nephew. Captain Eric Jabs retired from the Navy a few years ago after a 27 year career. He was aboard submarines for the first six years but went into administration after that and was base commander for reserve units in NH and VA. After retiring he went back to the Navy as a consultant on the repair of Naval ships. He travels to different parts of the globe and works with getting the supplies and parts needed for repair of ships in foreign ports. His degree was mechanical engineer but went to the Nuclear training school in Idaho where he did extremely well. I didn't think to ask him but he might know as well. By the way, his wife also retired as a Captain from the Navy and graduated from the Naval Academy. Maybe he knew her. Her name at that time would have been Kathleen Toomy.
I wonder if he at any time served with my nephew. ... (show quote)


I will ask. My friend graduated in 1969 I believe and served on the USS Shark (SSN-591) after Navy Nuclear Power School. He stayed in the reserve after active service and spent many years of weekend duty in Norfolk coordinating the US FBN subs in the Atlantic and retired as a Captain. His name is David W. Mosier.

BTW, he and I and two other old Navy salts have lunch every month, and one of our group was adjutant to Adm Rickover for many years. Lots of interesting stories....

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Mar 29, 2020 13:40:14   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
TriX wrote:
I will ask. My friend graduated in 1969 I believe and served on the USS Shark (SSN-591) after Navy Nuclear Power School. He stayed in the reserve after active service and spent many years of weekend duty in Norfolk coordinating the US FBN subs in the Atlantic and retired as a Captain. His name is David W. Mosier.

BTW, he and I and two other old Navy salts have lunch every month, and one of our group was adjutant to Adm Rickover for many years. Lots of interesting stories....


Most likely the generation before my nephew and his wife. Eric's last assignment was base commander of the Reserve unit in Norfolk but that wouldn't have been until around 2010 to 2013. Kathleen would definitely have known Rickover had the time line been different -- her degree from the Academy was in English and for several years she wrote speeches for the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon. She used to joke how she had the authority of NO! When national broadcasters and news people would come around looking for a story, she could advise them -- No comment! If anything else needed to be said, she would have to refer them to an Admiral or General. As a side note, when she was awarded her Captain's bars, they were pinned on her by Eric aboard the USS Constitution in Boston Harbor. Their son stayed nautical and graduated this past year from the Coast Guard Academy and is currently stationed in Puerto Rico.

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Mar 29, 2020 13:50:54   #
Big Yankee Fan
 
Coincidentally there is a piece in today's Sunday NYX Magazine on Chernobyl. The pix are haunting.

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Mar 29, 2020 14:27:42   #
neillaubenthal
 
I was also a Navy nuclear sub officer so have considerable familiarity with nuclear power. The problem with fusion, either proton or hydrogen...is that we haven’t figured out how to do it either safely, continuously, at scale, or in a net energy positive way. You need very high temp and pressure to get fusion to happen, this is usually done via high power lasers and has been successfully done...but only for microscopic batches of fuel and it takes more energy to do it than you get out of it. That’s the sticking point...we will likely eventually get there but s identifications progress takes a long time.

A hydrogen bomb is basically a fusion process... it it is actually 3 bombs in one. The first is the high explosive which crushes the plutonium and causes it to fission generating heat and pressure...that in turn heats the fusion fuel to surface of the sun like temp and some of that fusions before the forces tear the bomb apart...the whole nuclear part of the bang takes 30 nanoseconds or so...and it is over before the high explosive cracks the bomb case. About 80 tp 90 percent of the total bang comes from the fusion...and some large bombs gave multiple fusion sections called secondary or tertiary stages.

Fusion would be wonderful...basically an unlimited supply of fuel although it must be extracted from water at some cost. Relatively small amounts of radiation and leftover radioactive stuff/waste compared to fission factor but there is still some. But there are significant technical hurdles to overcome...which means solutions have to be theorized, analyzed, and developed...because doing it in a controlled way is a lot harder than the uncontrolled bang goes the bomb way.

Rickover stories...I met the kindly old gentleman 4 different times and could definitely tell you some Stories about him...quite a character.

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Mar 29, 2020 14:33:52   #
Smudgey Loc: Ohio, Calif, Now Arizona
 
TriX wrote:
For the first time in decades, permits have been issued for new nuclear power plants. Regardless of some fringe theories, no one in the US has ever died from a nuclear power plant event or “accident”, yet many are still afraid. As a Nuclear engineer once told me, people prefer to be killed by something they can see (cars, guns, ...).


So we should just keep building them till someone does dies.

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Mar 29, 2020 14:43:21   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
Smudgey wrote:
So we should just keep building them till someone does dies.


No, we should keep building them to supply America’s energy needs.

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Mar 29, 2020 15:25:18   #
Salomj9850
 
The promise of cheap energy from the atom has never been realized. To date every nuclear plant has cost double or triple the estimated build and operation cost. In addition the U.S. has not built a disposal facility for spent fuel. No one wants the disposed waste in their state. Wind and solar are safer and cheaper power sources.

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