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What do people mean by composition?
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Mar 14, 2020 11:33:15   #
Tomcat5133 Loc: Gladwyne PA
 
I might be a little controversial but for me telling a story and having
an interruptive approach sometimes is what I want to do.
Very interesting if composition is for an arrangement anyone
to judge without the background. Robert Frank the well known
photographer who broke the rules made in documentary style
photos something I wanted to do for a look at modern culture.
My favorite parts is the 2 feetl in the background standing up.
The bored life guard etc. Little girl holding on. I posted this
photo a while back and a nice gentelmen corrected my exposure
and sent it back to me. I wanted this dark to represent a huge
pool in an extravagant resort right next to a very beautiful
lake Noami in the Pocono's. We spent most of our time in
the lake and dodging the bears outside our rental.


(Download)

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Mar 14, 2020 11:36:36   #
SMPhotography Loc: Pawleys Island, SC
 
AzPicLady wrote:
Been there, done that! I've done some stupid things to get the shot I wanted, then worried about how to get out of the situation!


In that particular instance, other people with me passed their gear to me so I could take the same shot for them. I was gracious and obliged. I guess they thought, "why should I risk my neck for this shot when dummy over there already has?, what's the worst that could happen, he drops my camera into the ravine?"

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Mar 14, 2020 11:36:49   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
selmslie wrote:
Other than an arranged still life, there is rarely a "plan" in the photographer's mind before the shutter is tripped.


Planning can greatly improve your chances of getting a 'keeper'. As I walk around I make it a practice to look at a potentially interesting scene and try to visualize how it would look under different lighting, time of year, weather conditions etc. I build up a mental inventory of possibilities for different scenarios eg diffused light, strong shadows, summer dawn, rainy winter, fall colors etc . When the conditions are right I will go and shoot with a much better chance of success.

For travelling, I plan my itinerary around the places I want to see. I use Google maps and Streetview to find the best vantage points and I use Photopills to plan the best time for the lighting I want. It doesn't always work out and many of my best shots have been unplanned grab shots, but there is great satisfaction in arriving at a location and watching it unfold exactly as you visualized months beforehand and from thousands of miles away.

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Mar 14, 2020 11:39:57   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
SMPhotography wrote:
However, you can still apply the rule of thirds to your second photo and it still works. I guess the bottom line is, as I said, no "rule" of composition is ever set in stone and 10 photographers could take a shot of the same scene at the same time and you would most likely get 10 different interpretations
One of my biases is when something is really close to the edge of the frame. So your crop doesn't work for me in this case, but as you point out - and we should remember, remind ourselves and remind others - everyone has different likes and dislikes.

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Mar 14, 2020 11:40:20   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
srt101fan wrote:
......I see lots of mention of “composition” but very little of “content” in UHH commentary on photographs. And that led me to wonder if some UHHers may be using the term composition when they really mean content or subject......


Perhaps content is seen as being self-evident and self-explanatory whereas composition is seen as something that requires comments to draw our attention to it.

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Mar 14, 2020 11:43:19   #
SMPhotography Loc: Pawleys Island, SC
 
repleo wrote:
Planning can greatly improve your chances of getting a 'keeper'. As I walk around I make it a practice to look at a potentially interesting scene and try to visualize how it would look under different lighting, time of year, weather conditions etc. I build up a mental inventory of possibilities for different scenarios eg diffused light, strong shadows, summer dawn, rainy winter, fall colors etc . When the conditions are right I will go and shoot with a much better chance of success.

For travelling, I plan my itinerary around the places I want to see. I use Google maps and Streetview to find the best vantage points and I use Photopills to plan the best time for the lighting I want. It doesn't always work out and many of my best shots have been unplanned grab shots, but there is great satisfaction in arriving at a location and watching it unfold exactly as you visualized months beforehand and from thousands of miles away.
Planning can greatly improve your chances of getti... (show quote)


Exactly! I have cutouts I made in some heavy gauge plastic that I take everywhere I go. One is cut out in 35mm format (1x1.5") and the other in 2x2 when I am using the Hasselblad. I have painted the surface flat black and when I find a scene I will hold them up to it to help me previsualize what the scene will look like in the constraints of that particular format. It is very effective, at least for me.

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Mar 14, 2020 11:44:48   #
bleirer
 
SMPhotography wrote:
However, you can still apply the rule of thirds to your second photo and it still works. I guess the bottom line is, as I said, no "rule" of composition is ever set in stone and 10 photographers could take a shot of the same scene at the same time and you would most likely get 10 different interpretations


Linda's way was better to my eye. Why? I'm not sure. Maybe the absence of space beween the tail and frame in the cropped version is distracting? Maybe the area of highest contrast, which I think draws the eye first, was in a better place in her's.

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Mar 14, 2020 11:45:13   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
repleo wrote:
.......there is great satisfaction in arriving at a location and watching it unfold exactly as you visualized months beforehand.....


It doesn't always work that way for me but I use maps to get a head start and to save me from having to depend on exploration alone.

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Mar 14, 2020 11:50:53   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
bleirer wrote:
I know a cliche I positively don't like: framing the outermost edges of the image rectangle with an overhanging branch, rock formation, doorway, tree trunk, etc. I don't know which 'rule' we think it is or isn't, but to me it is distraction pure and simple.


Maybe it's your dislike of it that makes it a distraction for you .

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Mar 14, 2020 11:50:54   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
srt101fan wrote:
Thank you to those that addressed the topic directly. For the many that wandered off into comments re the rules and application of the principles of composition, here’s another try at explaining my original thoughts. (Let me say emphatically, however, that the responses related to the hows and whys of composition have been very interesting and are very much appreciated!)

I admit to a personal bias: For me content (subject matter) is the most important aspect of a photograph, ahead of composition, color, sharpness and the other criteria we use to judge a image. I think of the content of a photograph the way I think of the content of a book – what is it about? Composition, stated simplistically, is the arrangement of the pieces that create the content.

So, the issue I raised is that I see lots of mention of “composition” but very little of “content” in UHH commentary on photographs. And that led me to wonder if some UHHers may be using the term composition when they really mean content or subject. (Linda asked for some examples but unfortunately I can’t point to any right now!)

Thank you all!
Thank you to those that addressed the topic direct... (show quote)
Sorry for helping lead the charge down the alternate path In UHH Photo Gallery I imagine that the majority of folks base their time spent viewing and the comments they leave on the photo's subject.

But I'm still unclear about how you're defining content. "What is it about?" is different in my mind than "here is the subject; the subject is [fill in the blank: flowers, bird, kid, tree, building]."


Patterns, on Flickr

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Mar 14, 2020 11:56:15   #
SMPhotography Loc: Pawleys Island, SC
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Sorry for helping lead the charge down the alternate path In UHH Photo Gallery I imagine that the majority of folks base their time spent viewing and the comments they leave on the photo's subject.

But I'm still unclear about how you're defining content. "What is it about?" is different in my mind than "here is the subject; the subject is [fill in the blank: flowers, bird, kid, tree, building]."
Sorry for helping lead the charge down the alterna... (show quote)


I found this article and I think it does an excellent job of putting things in perspective. A photo with great content but lousy composition could quite possibly really suck but conversely, a beautifully composed photo of something very banal could also suck. There has to be a balance between the two.

http://christopherjwilson.com/composition-vs-content/

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Mar 14, 2020 12:00:47   #
bleirer
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Sorry for helping lead the charge down the alternate path In UHH Photo Gallery I imagine that the majority of folks base their time spent viewing and the comments they leave on the photo's subject.

But I'm still unclear about how you're defining content. "What is it about?" is different in my mind than "here is the subject; the subject is [fill in the blank: flowers, bird, kid, tree, building]."
Sorry for helping lead the charge down the alterna... (show quote)


If the subject is 'what am I taking a picture of, perhaps there are modifiers to the single word, flower, bird, etc. Perhaps the subject is a repeating pattern, a contrast, a color combination, an emotion, a sense of place, a juxtaposition of the street sign for Green Road next to the sign for the 'plant entrance 500 feet' next to the bed of flowers....

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Mar 14, 2020 12:01:43   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
SMPhotography wrote:
I found this article and I think it does an excellent job of putting things in perspective. A photo with great content but lousy composition could quite possibly really suck but conversely, a beautifully composed photo of something very banal could also suck. There has to be a balance between the two.

http://christopherjwilson.com/composition-vs-content/
Pretty good! Though, like so much online, the writer is badly in need of a proofreader

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Mar 14, 2020 12:04:29   #
SMPhotography Loc: Pawleys Island, SC
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Pretty good! Though, like so much online, the writer is badly in need of a proofreader


So are you saying his content was good but his composition sucked?

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Mar 14, 2020 12:04:35   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
bleirer wrote:
If the subject is 'what am I taking a picture of, perhaps there are modifiers to the single word, flower, bird, etc. Perhaps the subject is a repeating pattern, a contrast, a color combination, an emotion, a sense of place, a juxtaposition of the street sign for Green Road next to the sign for the 'plant entrance 500 feet' next to the bed of flowers....
Your examples are what I'd call "content" - the "what is it about" line. I guess we're getting bogged down in semantics now, or was it the OP that led us here? 😊

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