Country Boy Loc: Beckley, WV

I have been waiting to upgrade to a FF camera. Currently using a Nikon D7100 and started to purchase the Z6 but decided to hold off until the D780 was released. Since the release little has been said about them and while I know items where they differ, I really don't know the user experience and/or recommendations. Would love to know how they rate.

davesit Loc: Media, PA

What kind of photography will you be using the new camera for?

Country Boy Loc: Beckley, WV

Most of my previous photography has been people. Some things like family gatherings or business presentations for publications or some general shots which would be classified as landscape. That said, this summer I want to tour the state and take lots more landscape and also want to get into wildlife photography. I know I could get a D500 and use all the same family of lens used on the D7100 but I thought I would get a FF camera and more of a second camera than a replacement.

therwol Loc: USA

This is my opinion. Going full frame is going to involve investing in new lenses at considerable expense. (Unless you already have a stable of FX lenses you've been using on your D7100.). The lenses coming out for the Z cameras are said to be better, lighter and sharper, than the old F mount lenses, but there are far fewer choices at this moment. The first generation Z cameras have inferior autofocus. I would wait for the next generation of Z cameras to come out before making a purchase and then invest in the newer lenses when possible.

JD750 Loc: SoCal

A couple thoughts for you to consider. Both cameras will be fine for the types of photography you like. However, IMHO, comparing Z6 to D780 is like comparing apples and oranges. Apples and oranges are both round but that’s about all. D780 is DSLR format. Z6 is mirrorless format. The user experiences are quite different. Some prefer mirrorless others prefer DSLR. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. There is nothing wrong with preferring one over the other, but it’s good to know which you prefer.

It sounds like from what you say above you want a 2nd camera. IMHO A FF camera will not make a good 2nd to an APS-C camera because of the lenses. If you want to switch to a larger sensor then you need to consider that is going to mean new lenses. If you decide to go FF then ultimately you will be changing lens systems to FF lenses otherwise you won’t be getting your money’s worth from the FF sensor.

D780 is DSLR and native lenses are F-mount. Z6 is mirrorless and native lens system is Z-mount. Z-mount bodies with FTZ adaptor can use F lenses, with some restrictions. F-mount bodies cannot use Z lenses, period. There are no existing F to Z adaptors nor will there be any F to Z adaptors. So please ask yourself what lens system do you want to go forward with?

I really think this comes down to two things: (1) what lens system do you want to go forward with; (2) do you have a preference of DSLR over mirrorless? Perhaps that will help guide your decision.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

If you don't have the FX lenses already, consider instead either the D7500 or the D500. Going full frame is both for the lenses and the body. With an interest in wildlife, add 'FX' lenses now, with the D7100 or the next DX body. Add the full-frame body later, if ever, not first.

You might go back and read through the comments from the two prior threads for your questions about this idea. The full frame 24-70 lens, either f/2.8 or f/4, is the way to get started on the FF body, so factor that lens into your pricing of a FF body.

Country Boy Loc: Beckley, WV

CHG_CANON I always appreciate your advice and don't disagree. Some advice you gave this morning regarding purchasing a tripod I like is : "Best advice: get the best one that matches to your long-term needs this time, not next time." I am not buying a tripod but feel the same recommendation would apply.

I don't have a limiting budget and want to purchase something that will keep me happy for a long time and some how I don't think never having a FF camera would make me happy. In the photos of people I take I like the option of cropping and the eye focus would be a nice option to have.

You are spot on about the lens first. I am about to purchase a Segma 150-600 FX lens that I can use on all 3 of the bodies I have been looking at although the Z6 is via the adapter. If I go with the Z6 I will get the 24-70 most likely because it really meets my needs there and there are so many FX lens available that I can pick up as needed. You advised me once before to consider the D500 and I have not given up on that thought but feel that I will be kicking myself later if I don't get an FF body.

Thanks for your comments all the above responses help me level set. I have a couple of months before I need the second body because my cycle tour is warm weather for me!

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

From the prices that caught my eye in scanning the prior discussions, this is still probably the ideal kit (minus, maybe the price): Nikon Z7 body, with Z 24-70mm f/4 lens and FTZ Adapter Kit. Your FF goal should deliver a significant jump in pixel resolution such as 45MP for the Z7 rather than another 24MP body. Of course, 24MP is more than enough, being the resolution of my own bodies. My point is that if you're going to go in this FF direction, go the whole way.

And while you're at it, consider your computer hardware as you'll need more disk and more RAW to efficiently process these larger files. It's not just the camera body being my summary point.

Country Boy Loc: Beckley, WV

Thanks for the additional information. I think an entry level will be sufficient for what I plan to do. You told me once before about the computer needs and I have purchased a 23 inch monitor and am going to purchase a desk model PC that will only be used for PP and Photo storage. I just purchased Photo Elements and a dummy's book to learn better processing. I am not in your league of photography but plan to learn at least some of the art. I have lots of room on my laptop but in setting up this hobby I want a work station and storage unit that won't get used for every day activity. Thanks again!

craggycrossers Loc: Robin Hood Country, UK

[quote=therwol] The first generation Z cameras have inferior autofocus.

Time for you to "catch up" dear chap .......

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-nikon-z-system-almost.html

Scroll down to the para "Which brings me to focusing....."

Country Boy Loc: Beckley, WV

[quote=craggycrossers]

Thanks, good article. I have also read articles that say the AF is not the best but improved. This is one of the things I have a problem with. I have been watching the tests for this reason.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Full frame would be nice for portraits and for landscapes, though the 24MP resolution of the Z6 and D780 isn't much for landscape photography. It's also not all that different than what you've got now in your D7100... granted, it's FX vs DX and newer versus older sensor/processors... but it's still 24/25MP across the board. Especially for landscapes, if you're gonna jump to full frame, it sure would be nice to have at least one of the 36MP cameras, if not 46MP!

The problem is, those 36MP/46MP FX cameras are a lot more expensive! The cameras you asked about cost $1850 (Z6) and $2300 (D780). 46MP Z7... $2500. 46MP D850... $3000. Oddly, 36MP D810 is also $3000.

Plus, you mention wanting to get into wildlife photography. For that, you might want to hang onto your D7100 or upgrade to a newer DX model. Otherwise, to shoot wildlife with an FX camera, you're gonna need a bigger lens! If you're using a 300mm or 400mm now, start looking at 500mm and 600mm to use on the FX camera!

Maybe there's an alternative....

How about doing both DX and FX? Sounds like might cost too much, but maybe not.

Even refurbished D810 are still $2400 at Nikon USA... but I found two used ones at B&H for $1150 to $1250 (same warranty as Nikon USA refurb, I think). Prices are similar or less at MPB.com (don't know if there's any warranty). Might be worth a look at KEH.com, too.

This would get you full frame and still leave a lot left over from your original budget.

If you still wanted it, you'd still have enough for a moderate DX upgrade for your D7100 too. I really think you are going to want to keep a DX camera in your kit for wildlife photography. The alternative is to haul around bigger, heavier, more expensive lenses for use on an FX camera... or give up on "reach". I think the D7200 is worthwhile, though only you can say if it's enough difference from your D7100.

One of the primary complaints about the D7100 was its small buffer. The D7200 pretty much solves that, although the much bigger buffer of the D7200 isn't mentioned in most "on paper" comparisons.

The D7200 maintains the 24MP resolution of the D7100, but uses a newer sensor and/or processor, giving it the best dynamic range and color bit depth of any Nikon DX model. It's also got a much higher ISO range, although only you can say how high you're willing to use. It's nice to have the option to go higher than the D7100's ISO 6400, if you wish.

The D7200 also has an improved AF system too... able to focus in lower light. That might complement higher usable ISO. It's also more efficient, Nikon rates it to be able to take 16-17% more shots per battery charge. It's got various other tweaks. Enough to make you want an upgrade?

https://cameradecision.com/compare/nikon-d7100-vs-nikon-d7200
https://www.apotelyt.com/compare-camera/nikon-d7100-vs-nikon-d7200
https://www.imaging-resource.com/cameras/nikon/d7100/vs/nikon/d7200/

D7200 is no longer commonly found new.... But refurbished are available. B&H has them for under $700.

So you could potentially get both a 36MP FX camera (portraits, landscapes and more) *and* a DX upgrade (wildlife and other telephoto work) for the around the cost of the Z6 alone, or less than the cost of a D780 alone.

Note: D7200 doesn't have the frame rate of D7500 or D500, nor the AF system of the D500.... but it has better dynamic range, a little more color bit depth and more resolution. The D7500 and D500 are both 21MP cameras. Some folks thing D7500 wasn't an upgrade in some other ways, too.

Just a thought.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

It depends entirely what will improve your photography. Perhaps your photography can be improved by even more pixels, but 24mp is plenty for me; other of us would find 24mp of "FF" pixels plenty, but would gain from the greater ISO settings possible if those pixels are larger. The thing that has grabbed my attention are the graceful higher ISO settings available from the Z6.

CO

[quote=craggycrossers]

I agree. I rented the Z6 for two weeks. The image quality is stellar but its autofocus performance really needs to be improved. I did side by side testing with my D500. The Z6 would often hunt in even slightly dim light, trying to achieve focus. I activated the low light focusing option but that didn't seem to help. My D500 would achieve focus immediately on the same subject. The D500 was better for continuous tracking also. I will have to wait until the 2nd or 3rd generation Nikon Z series cameras come out and evaluate again.

Country Boy Loc: Beckley, WV

Thank you for such a well formatted well thought out response. You have me thinking and that is what I need. Your comments are truly helpful - Thanks