PhotobyWD

Hello, I shoot in raw and jpeg and recently started saving my best photos to Tif files. I know that jpeg looses quality and Tif doesn't. Is there any disadvantages to using Tif files? If not why do cameras save in jepg and not Tif. I am considering just shooting in raw and converting to Tif. Is there any good reason to shoot jpeg too?
Thanks in advance for your input and thanks to UHH for a great informative site.

f8lee Loc: New Mexico

When the in-camera computer converts the raw data stream coming off the sensor into a JPEG file it follows pre-programmed algorithms and then discards the data not used. This is now every digital camera works - even if you just save the raw files when you view (or "chimp") the photo on the LCD in the camera you are looking at that already-processed image. Since the JPEG definition calls for 8 bit color depth (too geeky to get into here) this means, among other things, that while the origial data stream (i.e. - raw file) might have captured a lot of detail much of that may well be lost when this conversion happens in-camera.

If you use a post-processing program (like Lightroom, Photoshop, Apple Photos, GIMP, or any of a gaggle of such programs) on a raw file then you will see that there are a lot of things you can do with the raw file as compared to the jpeg the camera's computer created. For instance, say you take shots on a bright sunny day at the beach, with your kids in the foreground...the camera-generated JPEG might show a beautiful background but the kids are mostly silhouettes - or, perhaps the kids will appear reasonably well exposed but the background is washed out. But take the raw file into a program that allows you to bring up shadows or tone down highlights, and you will see that the chip actually captured a lot more detail than you can pull from the JPEG (again, because the JPEG has been processed and compressed to save size).

So it basically comes down to this: if you save the raw files you will have more options to improve the images once you get them onto your computer. But the time that might take (or your nervousness about dealing with all that) might make the trade-off less desirable, and you might find JPEG images that the camera's computer generates are just fine for your purposes.

If you have the camera save both file types, then you could keep all the JPEGs that already look good to you but will have the chance to "save" images that look lousy in the JPEG version but that you could fix up, as it were, in post.

The JPEG format was basically designed to minimize the size of the image file, for quickly uploading and downloading (on a web page or an email), and so uses "lossy" compression to help keep file sizes small. And that may be perfectly good for your purposes, at least most of the time. Raw files require additonal work on your part, but can well afford you the ability to improve the images you show to others.

PhotobyWD

Thanks for the input. What about Tif files, are there any disadvantages?

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

I currently just save RAW files to my computer.
I used to save the JPEGS as well but that was silly to me as the raw is easily converted to JPEG if needed and emailed or posted.
TIFF I find is just a way to waste space, used to do it but found it worthless to me, because I had the RAW original and UHH, FB and most other formats do not take TIFF. There have been other posts here about JPEG losing quality when copied and I believe it was found to have a perceptible impact after some perhaps million resaves. How often do you resave a JPEG as once you create it it just stays there? Opening it or using it or posting it is not a resave of your JPEG so no "Degradation".
Some save TIFFs and like it but for me with RAW I figured out it was a waste of space to save either except for the JPEG from PP being saved to use or post and is saved in a folder as such.

PhotobyWD

Thanks, good points to think about.

Nalu Loc: Southern Arizona

I'm no expert here, but I believe tif files will keep all the data you have in the image after you process it from a raw file. As with in camera jpeg files, when you convert a processed image to jpeg, you loose data. With a tif file, you can go back and work on the image again if you want to make changes and have all the data to work with. There may be some advantages in printing as well, but someone else should answer that part of the question. Your first response to your post gave you a lot of good information about the advantages of raw, but did not address your question re tif files.

Good question and will be watching for more responses.

AzPicLady Loc: Behind the camera!

If there are disadvantages to TIF files, I wouldn't know them. Why don't camera manufacturers do that? You'd have to ask them. I'd imagine space is the big issue. I shoot RAW and JPEG. Sometimes I have to get an image sent off immediately with no time or ability to work the RAW image. Since my camera is set to produce jpegs that normally look the way I want them, I can send the jpeg within seconds of shooting it. When you're in a hurry, jpegs are really handy. When I upload to my website, I have to send a jpeg. So, even if I save the worked RAW image to a TIF, I then have to have a JPEG also to upload. Sp. even though it takes up space, I usually have both formats of my best images.

BebuLamar

The disadvantage of TIFF is that the files are very large. Larger than even RAW files.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

It all depends on what you are doing with your files.
First of all, you should be keeping the raw files. They are the basis of all the images you can produce down the line. If you edit a raw file you can't save it as a raw file. You have to export it as either a jpg, a tif, a png, or some other image format. The raw file remains unchanged. If you use a parametric editor (e.g. Lightroom) you can reproduce your file to a jpg whenever you need it. The jpg so produced will not lose quality unless you re-save it with some other editor.

Tif is similar to a bitmap file. It's much larger than a jpg because jpgs are usually compressed with a lossy algorithm, which is why people say they degrade. With that algorithm you lose a bit of data every time you regenerate the jpg. If you copy a jpg, that's not the same as regenerating it, and there is no loss of quality by copying a jpg. The loss in the jpg compression algorithm is usually small and not noticeable unless you save it with a lot of compression. So a single save will not degrade your image significantly. The tif file will look similar but is generally much larger, which is really the only disadvantage. Storage is cheap, so it's your call which you want to use.

Jpgs are used because they are the current image standard format, and pretty much every app that uses images will read jpgs. Do you save images to iCloud photos? When I try to do that (from my Win10 laptop) I get a message that they only accept jpg formats. (Although if I generate a .heif image with my iPhone it will be saved in iCloud). Your camera (and all those other apps) use jpgs because the file is smaller. You can fit more onto your card. And at the compression used by the camera's software, the image degradation due to jpg compression is really pretty negligible.

camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.

Modern JPEG files have excellent quality. RAW data needs skillful editing to bring back all of its goodness. TIFF files are large files that retain all the information and they are very useful if saved because the data is lossless.
It is very possible to work with a JPEG file many times without suffering the degradation so many people talk about. What they tend to loose is sharpness but that is easily fixed. A good idea is not to work with a JPEG with lots of editing because artifacts like banding in the sky and slight shifts in color are common. When I work with a JPEG file I usually work on a duplicate of the image.

JPEG is the universal file and all editing programs can recognize it. It is the file that the majority of professional printing labs use along with the sRGB color space. By the way, sRGB is the color space our monitors can see better. Our eyes cannot see all of the colors present in a sRGB file and neither our eyes nor a monitor can see all of the colors present in Adobe RGB or ProPhoto. I do not know of any printing lab in the Miami area that prints TIFF files.

For the most flexibility use RAW data but keep in mind that skillful editing is needed to make the data look its best. With JPEG the firmware of the camera intervenes to add to the file the parameters that were selected by the operator. Yes, data is lost but it is also lost when a RAW data is converted to JPEG. I tend to work with 16 bits of data including sharpness and when I save to JPEG which has 8 bits of data I use optimal compression for the best quality. If I shoot an original JPEG then I save it as a TIFF.

PhotobyWD

Thanks

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

An advantage of saving RAW files as a TIFF is that it supports pp programs with layers. Using layers to do you pp allows you to do it nondestructively. I use Photoshop, so I save as PSD files with layers, which is basically the same as TIFF.

bw79st Loc: New York City

I do find that when I scan an image, such as an old family document or photo print, it is better to save it as a TIFF. The object is to create a digital image that can be examined in detail by future generations of the family. Let's face it, if you have a document to scan then that image may be the only surviving proof that it ever existed.

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

JPEG vs TIFF
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/imagetypes.htm

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

I will have my say and then [unwatch] and let those who are religiously tied to 'raw' have their say and say.

The fact is, that if you save a high quality {low compression} JPEG, most likely you cannot see any difference between that and the TIFF equivalent on a screen or print - most people cannot - when viewing the whole scene as you saw it when taking the picture. Perhaps when zooming you will notice a pixel or two out of 24 million. There is no difference for the average viewer - but take a few and then decide for yourself.