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Best Kit Lens?
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Mar 1, 2020 12:44:00   #
ggab Loc: ?
 
frjeff wrote:
I am thinking of picking up a simple, older camera, and keep the lens inventory to one or two lenses.
I just returned an older Pentax K10D as the viewfinder was was impossible to see in bright sunlight. Sadly, I was highly impressed with the IQ of that 10MP camera.

Not looking for all the bells and whistles of a modern camera (already have two). Just looking for good IQ.

Before I make a choice, I began to think that before I choose a camera, I might be wise to determine which brand has the best “kit” lens and/or prime lenses (35mm-50mm) as that is where I’d likely start (and might remain. Would primarily shoot street and landscapes with the camera.

Any thoughts on this camera picking methodology? And also, your thoughts on my lens question?
I am thinking of picking up a simple, older camera... (show quote)


If you already have modern cameras with "bells and whistles", what is your motivation for getting this?
Are the "bells and whistles" cameras too complicated, too large, too heavy??? Is this a "Gas Attack"?

The fact that you are considering prime lenses eliminates bridge cameras and pretty much locks you into either mirrorless or dslr. The fact that you indicate that you are not looking for a modern camera, eliminates mirrorless.
So, you are looking for an old series DSLR with either a kit zoom around 35-50mm or with 35 & 50mm primes.

I would suggest looking into older versions of your modern cameras that could use the lenses you already have.

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Mar 1, 2020 13:28:26   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
frjeff wrote:
I am thinking of picking up a simple, older camera, and keep the lens inventory to one or two lenses.
I just returned an older Pentax K10D as the viewfinder was was impossible to see in bright sunlight. Sadly, I was highly impressed with the IQ of that 10MP camera.

Not looking for all the bells and whistles of a modern camera (already have two). Just looking for good IQ.

Before I make a choice, I began to think that before I choose a camera, I might be wise to determine which brand has the best “kit” lens and/or prime lenses (35mm-50mm) as that is where I’d likely start (and might remain. Would primarily shoot street and landscapes with the camera.

Any thoughts on this camera picking methodology? And also, your thoughts on my lens question?
I am thinking of picking up a simple, older camera... (show quote)


You don't need to limit yourself to an older camera, unless your budget is extremely tight.

There have been a number of interesting suggestions already. I suspect a lot of them are waaaaayyyy more $ than you wanted to spend! But I don't know your budget, so am going to limit to $600 for the camera and kit lens.

For your consideration:

Canon M50 with EF-M 15-45mm kit lens. Currently on sale for $599 or $480 refurbished from the Canon USA web site, this is a 24MP APS-C mirrorless camera with built-in viewfinder. The lens is what makes this option a bit of a stand-out. It's wider than many kit lenses (with a full frame angle of view equiv. 24-72mm). That would be nice for landscapes and street photography. The electronic viewfinder would be great for low light shooting conditions and also can be helpful if using manual focus lenses on the camera. The Canon M5 is also on sale, even more discounted to $569, but the lens in kit with it is the EF-M 18-150mm (29-240mm FF equiv.)

In addition, for use with these cameras Canon offers a neat 22mm f/2 "pancake" lens (35mm FF equiv.) that would be fun to use for street photography. Or, if you wanted wider for landscapes, there is an EF-M 11-22mm (approx. 18-35mm FF equiv.) There aren't a whole lot of EF-M lenses avail., but there are good choices for your particular purposes. There also are some interesting third party lenses. Rokinon/Samyang offers 10mm f/2.8, 12mm f/2, 21mm f/1.4, 35mm f/1.2, 50mm f/1.2 and others... manual focus and aperture, but affordable, well built, large aperture lenses. Sigma just introduced several AF lenses for the M-series, too.

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM "pancake" lens sells for $229 new, but can be found refurbished (Canon USA website) for $199 or for even less used.
Canon EF-M 11-22mm STM IS lens is on sale for $349 new (reg. 399), but might be found for less used.

FYI: I've mentioned Canon refurbished a couple times.... Those can be a good deal and have the same warranty as new, but are only sold direct from the Canon USA online store.

There are similar moderate cost mirrorless camera options from other manufacturers:

Sony A6000 with 16-50mm kit lens (24-75mm equiv.), 24MP APS-C, $548.
Olympus OMD-EM10 Mark III with 14-42mm kit lens (28-84mm equiv.), 16MP Micro 4/3, $499.
Olympus OMD-EM10 Mark II with 14-42mm kit lens (28-42mm equiv.), 16MP Micro 4/3, $449.

I limited the above to mirrorless cameras with built-in viewfinders, with a kit lens and priced under $600.

I'll leave it to you to explore what other lenses are available for the Sony and Oly systems, if you're interested.

All these mirrorless are quite compact, smaller than most DSLRs, but still allow for interchangeable lenses. I see the latter as a distinct advantage over non-interchangeable lens, compact point-n-shoot digital cameras. All these cameras can be as simple or as complex as you want them to be. They can be set to "auto" and perform like a point-n-shoot... or you can set everything manually if you wish.

They also all use electronic viewfinders, which can be set up to preview exposure and can be very helpful when shooting in low light. They also have manual focus assist features you won't find in the optical viewfinders of DSLRs. The down side to electronic viewfinders is that they're power hogs... These cameras typically will get a lot fewer shots per charge than a DSLR.

If you prefer a DSLR, you might check out the Canon SL2 or SL3. Only a little bigger and heavier than the M-series mirrorless, I see the SL3 selling for $520 refurbished with the EF-S 18-55mm kit lens. There are even cheaper (T6, T7, SL1), but I recommend avoiding them because they lack a lot of important features found on the above models. You'll also find cheaper Canon M-series mirrorless (M100, M6) but those don't have a built-in viewfinder (M6 can be fitted with an accessory viewfinder, but that's extra cost). Some Canon DSLR two-lens kits are offered with an EF 75-300mm III... avoid it. That's Canon's cheapest and worst telephoto zoom. The Canon EF-S 55-250mm IS STM lens is usually a little bit more expensive, but is a much better lens in every possible way.

You really should try to look at any models you're considering in a store, to be sure the viewfinder is up to your expectations. The Canon M50, Sony a6000, Oly EM-10D III and II all have 100% viewfinders that are fairly large with higher magnification. The Oly EM-10D III has the highest magnification viewfinder, but as a Micro 4/3 camera it's sensor is a little smaller than the Canon and Sony, so the actual difference may be minimal. The Canon SL3 DSLR has a 95% viewfinder, lower magnification and a bit smaller I'm sure. Many lower cost, APS-C DSLR viewfinders are a bit "tight". I suspect the SL3's viewfinder might be even smaller than the K10D's. The mirrorless camera viewfinders may be more to your liking.

All the above are current or very recent models, would be in warranty and repairable (if need be) for some years to come. The same can't be said for a used, 14 year old K10D!

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Mar 1, 2020 14:32:55   #
dick ranez
 
you didn't define a price point so anything goes:
1: Nikon Z5 or Canon RP with lens(es)
2: Fuji XT2 with 18-55
3: Olympus or Panasonic with 12-40 (?)
4: Nikon 3500 or Canon SL2 with 18-55
5: Panasonic bridge fz whatever
6: I phone 11
All these are basically under a thousand bucks (new or used).

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Mar 1, 2020 15:04:03   #
JayRay Loc: Missouri
 
Fuji X-T2 with its 18-55 mm kit lens. The lens is incredibly sharp. I have shot with Canon, Sigma, and Tamron glass on various Canon bodies but the Fuji 18-55 mm kit lens on the Fuji X-T2 out sharpens them all!

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Mar 1, 2020 17:34:34   #
photoguy1761
 
JayRay wrote:
Fuji X-T2 with its 18-55 mm kit lens. The lens is incredibly sharp. I have shot with Canon, Sigma, and Tamron glass on various Canon bodies but the Fuji 18-55 mm kit lens on the Fuji X-T2 out sharpens them all!


Add my vote for the Fuji mirrorless system, the kit (18-55 mm)lens is image stabilized and very sharp, also my vote is for the X-Pro1 you can get a good copy for not much more over $300, it gives great Images straight out of the camera or file has room to be worked on in Lightroom or free version of Capture One for Fuji.

Like all Fuji's they are fun to shoot and they make you want to go out and take photos. Colors are great and also B&W is in my opinion fantastic straight out of camera jpgs.





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Mar 1, 2020 18:25:41   #
RichKenn Loc: Merritt Island, FL
 
Ditto. The 18-105 is a super good lens. I hardly use anything else.

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Mar 1, 2020 19:16:52   #
Seabastes
 
I bought a Panasonic Lumix GX85 mirrorless camera system with 12-32 and 45-150 kit lenses last year and have been very impressed for MY USE . At the time the price had just dropped to about $400 plus sales tax here in Washington State from close to $1000 as this particular model had been discontinued. This camera coming with it's two kit lenses is now priced around $600 plus tax if your state charges it. The lenses are slower F3/5-5.6 or F4-5.6 range, but with an ISO bumped up to 3200, I find it works well for my purposes with very little noise.. It is much like the rangefinders of the 1960's as far as handling when using the electronic viewfinder, but is a computer with a fine piece of class in front of it. I liked it so wellI bought a second system to keep the new body and selling the lenses at a very reasonable price to another UHH member.

Photo equipment is a very personal thing, I like the Panasonic systems so much that I tend to use them more than my Nikon's which are still fine cameras as are all of the major brands.

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Mar 1, 2020 20:48:12   #
wetreed
 
rehess wrote:
You use terms like “without doubt” too much. Nikon users may agree, but you will find that users of other brands do not agree.


Yes use these terms because they describe what I know to be fact. I base these statements on years of experience and I have used both lenses. I have no doubt as to the validity of my statement.

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Mar 1, 2020 21:21:14   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
wetreed wrote:
Yes use these terms because they describe what I know to be fact. I base these statements on years of experience and I have used both lenses. I have no doubt as to the validity of my statement.

In 1964 - nearly 50 years ago - I was in high school. Even back then, Nikon had developed the F-Mount and Canon had invented the R-mount, so when Asahi developed a 50mm f/1.4 M42-Mount lens which was dubbed the “Zeiss killer”, only a fraction of users would ever compare it to Zeiss’s Planar 50mm f/1.4 M42-Mount lens by using it on their own camera.

Lens choice includes physical build-quality, AF speed and accuracy, center sharpness, corner-to-corner sharpness, micro-contrast, and color rendering ..... and perhaps other things I’m not thinking of at the moment. “Best Lens” depends on seeing all these things for yourself and evaluating them for yourself using your own standards. Today, we have even more mounts than we had in 1964, including two mounts by each of Canon and Nikon, so I really doubt you are in a position to use the strong words you used. I believe you have used the two lenses you mentioned, but I really doubt you have as much familiarity with the other lenses mentioned in this thread to firmly declare your two as “best”. For these reasons, I do not share your assuredness.

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Mar 1, 2020 21:43:47   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
rehess wrote:
In 1964 - nearly 50 years ago - I was in high school.


Shoulda paid attention in math class.

--

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Mar 1, 2020 21:56:33   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Bill_de wrote:
Shoulda paid attention in math class.

--

It was over, not "almost". 50 years ago, wasn't it?
Gosh, I was personally using a Kodak Instamatic 100 back then!
{nobody would claim "best" status for its plastic lens}.

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Mar 2, 2020 07:46:52   #
classic320
 
been quite happy with the Sony 16-50 f2.8 , decidedly upscale from the usual "kit" lens, though I usually find the "ordinary" kit lenses to be decent performers......

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Mar 2, 2020 08:52:51   #
wetreed
 
rehess wrote:
In 1964 - nearly 50 years ago - I was in high school. Even back then, Nikon had developed the F-Mount and Canon had invented the R-mount, so when Asahi developed a 50mm f/1.4 M42-Mount lens which was dubbed the “Zeiss killer”, only a fraction of users would ever compare it to Zeiss’s Planar 50mm f/1.4 M42-Mount lens by using it on their own camera.

Lens choice includes physical build-quality, AF speed and accuracy, center sharpness, corner-to-corner sharpness, micro-contrast, and color rendering ..... and perhaps other things I’m not thinking of at the moment. “Best Lens” depends on seeing all these things for yourself and evaluating them for yourself using your own standards. Today, we have even more mounts than we had in 1964, including two mounts by each of Canon and Nikon, so I really doubt you are in a position to use the strong words you used. I believe you have used the two lenses you mentioned, but I really doubt you have as much familiarity with the other lenses mentioned in this thread to firmly declare your two as “best”. For these reasons, I do not share your assuredness.
In 1964 - nearly 50 years ago - I was in high scho... (show quote)


I know what I know and you do not know what I know.

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Mar 2, 2020 09:07:52   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
wetreed wrote:
I know what I know and you do not know what I know.

I really doubt you have used every lens listed in this thread - in fact, I don’t believe you have gone beyond Nikon.

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Mar 3, 2020 10:34:57   #
danbir1 Loc: North Potomac, MD
 
It is 18-55 not 18-50
It is by far the best "kit" lens available today, new or used!!
I have it since 2014, never a miss never a problem, always super sharp, quiet, quick.

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