tommystrat Loc: Bigfork, Montana

Rule of Thirds, Sweet 16, Zone System, F8 and be there, etc. ...and the list goes on. All important and useful as TOOLS to enhance and balance the artist's conception of the image he or she is trying to capture and the message intended to be conveyed. I am not a big fan of "centered" subjects, but there are times when such a centering is exactly what the artist intended. If that is the case, so be it and let the image be considered on its own merit. And, as has been uttered in these hallowed halls to extinction, "If you like it, that's all that matters!"

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Your talent and instincts are inspiring. The dark background and hints of leaves add so much to this gorgeous composition IMO.

Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan

Thanks.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

The subject is centered, but it's not a symmetrical composition - meaning all the "stuff" is on the right side of the frame. I wanted that amount of blue sky as negative space. Even though the bird appears at rest, it was important to me that it feel as if she could fly off at any moment.

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Fred Harwood Loc: Sheffield, Mass.

To illustrate a HDTV crop ratio only, I offer this example. The lower "third" line goes through the sun, and upper and right "third" lines go through the tree, where I find a bird. It reduces the larger sky area.

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CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Achieving an image with a rule of thirds arrangement is easier to achieve when shooting / focusing with the subject arranged within the frame at / near those guides. I have the 1/3 guides active in one of my cameras. I use off-center AF points about 99% of the time on all my cameras.

I also use the 1/3 guides 100% of the time when cropping. I prefer image elements along the guidelines more so than forcing specifically to the intersections. Maybe that's my way to 'break the rules' rebellion? According to the LR 1/3 guides, here is a diagram on a recent image.

Also in rebellion is the use of the center guides, shown in white in the diagram. If placing something in the center, I'd prefer other elements follow the guides too rather than a pure centered composition.

St. Marks National Wildlife Refuge by Paul Sager, on Flickr

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Thanks Fred! I usually find little interest with 16:9, I think mostly because it feels cramped, claustrophobic. I'm so used to big skies and long, wide views around the Yakima Valley

Fred Harwood Loc: Sheffield, Mass.

I use it mostly for "slideshows" that will be displayed on large HDTV screens, and for some landscapes.

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

When it comes to composition, usually I just go by what feels right. Some images seem to adhere to the Rule of Thirds, some don't. Visual balance is more important to me. One thing I've noticed - in square format images, Rule of Thirds rarely works.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

If you look at the image composition on network television, you’ll notice that they often use the rule of thirds, even If it means cutting off the tops of people’s heads.

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

Rules? What rules. Being constrained with arbitrary conventions of composition is going to limit your creativity. If RoF lends itself to whatever you are shooting, by all means, go ahead. If not, just do it.

My #1 selling stock image is a shot of Mt Rushmore, nicely centered, the mountain filling the entire screen. My #2 selling image is a meadow and monolith in Yosemite that is almost the rule of thirds ish.

Like I said, outside the box is better.

Cany143 Loc: SE Utah

Good point there, Linda. I don't mean as regards Mike's work, per se, but in having brought up the concept of 'single subject' as it relates --or doesn't relate-- to any person's objective/subjective intent in applying --or not applying-- the Rule of Thirds.

For some, a 'single subject' is sufficient. Whether that 'thing' (person, flower, bird, etc.) is placed center or whether its placed off-center via R of T, the choice of placement will probably do either of two things: it'll state that this is the subject, or it'll state that this is the subject in relation to the subject's surroundings. Neither result is better or worse than the other, its simply the choice that's made for a particular image, and what the photographer's point of view (writ large, as in what their aesthetic) might generally be.

I view photography much as I view literature. There are single subject 'centered' studies, these tend to act like short stories. There's little or no tension, little or no character development, and no protagonist/antagonist conflict to worry or resolve. Take that same single subject and R of T it, and it automatically enters into a relationship with its environment and any other 'subjects' the photographer has 'placed' in the frame. Its no longer a simple character study; it will likely have most or all of the elements of a novel, and will have main and secondary characters, and rather more will have been shown --directly and through suggestion-- than 'she has a nice smile and brown hair' or 'the rose is red.'

There are other ways to use the R of T, too, and don't relate quite as obviously as that of a 'subject.' These can be the use (the placement on the thirds) of light and dark, contrasting or complementary colors, animate thing/inanimate thing, you name it. Or better, whatever is appropriate to the subject or scene.

Rule of Thirds is a broader topic than its usually given credit for.

PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA

"What say you?" - I say it is a good rule, but sometimes it needs to be broken.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Would you talk about the importance (or lack thereof) of the tonal contrast and the leading line (is it a leading line when it's horizontal to the bottom of the frame?) of the dark trees, Paul? For me, those are a large part of the success, so much that I feel a color version would have far less impact.

Thank you!

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

I enjoyed your informative discussion very much, Jim! And it was fun to discover your mention of light and dark after I wrote to Chg_Canon

"...the subject in relation to the subject's surroundings" is a biggie for me, especially when some folks insist on tight cropping as being the only story when they are offering feedback.

With regards to short stories, I'm thinking that they do have tension, and often a protagonist/antagonist. Perhaps it's related to the genre? I like the mystery and crime-type.