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Shutter count mystery on my Canon 80D
Jan 27, 2020 10:03:17 #
PGHphoto
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
CHG_CANON wrote:
Is the data accurate? Is the data relevant? When was the last time you saw anyone ask to see the 'mirror count' on any type of camera? If you're bound and determined to get an answer on something that doesn't deserve the attention, call Canon and ask them. And, be prepared to be told they don't support 3rd party software, and instead, pay to have the camera sent to them for an 'official' reading.
Mirror count is important because it gives a better idea of the video usage. Often if used for video a lot, I am told the shutter has a tendency to freeze open. I have not found any actual proof but thats the urban myth. Others have said the excessive use of video can cause faster degradation of the sensor due to the constant "on" state of the sensor while recording video. Again - have never seen actual proof of that.
Additionally, if live view is used a lot, the mirror may go up and down many times without the camera even taking a shot. Typically when the time-out limit is reached, the mirror will come down and camera go to sleep. If you use live view a lot its easy to have the mirror go up and down many times as you are looking for the shot you want and never actually shoot anything.
Jan 27, 2020 10:52:14 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
Is the data accurate? Is the data relevant? When was the last time you saw anyone ask to see the 'mirror count' on any type of camera? If you're bound and determined to get an answer on something that doesn't deserve the attention, call Canon and ask them. And, be prepared to be told they don't support 3rd party software, and instead, pay to have the camera sent to them for an 'official' reading.
This is the first camera I have ever seen a mirror count on. I do not care one way or the other so long as the camera works. Was just curious.
Jan 27, 2020 10:54:32 #
Leitz wrote:
If those numbers are correct, the mirror count is 2,333 more than the shutter count, not 4,667. Hope that figured it out for you.
Your right. My math sucks! LOL
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Jan 27, 2020 10:57:15 #
PGHphoto wrote:
Mirror count is important because it gives a bette... (show quote)
This is true. Anything which moves will eventually wear out depending on its use, quality and durability.
Jan 27, 2020 10:59:35 #
Thanks to all who have commented. Was never an issue, only a curiosity as I have never seen a mirror count before. I am happy either way. The camera is in new condition, low usage and works. I am satisfied and will go out, take photos and enjoy.
Jan 27, 2020 11:26:50 #
authorizeduser wrote:
This is true. Anything which moves will eventually wear out depending on its use, quality and durability.
So, did you research the expected shutter life for an 80D? Online resources place it at 100,000.
Simple math can be used to project this useful life in your hands. If you shot 1000 images a month, every single month, well that's 100 months or about 8-years. Plug in any numbers that are more accurate to your expected usage. Also, high-end DSLRs do not turn to dust when the shutter odometer crosses the expected life. Some cameras will experience issues before the expected life. Most will last well beyond the expected life.
Jan 27, 2020 11:44:30 #
Check if the silent mode counts as a shutter activation. These are usually electronic first curtain, rather than the Mechanical first curtain. I think the second curtain is mechanical but maybe not.
In that scenario/theory the mirror goes up but the mechanical shutter is not used.
In that scenario/theory the mirror goes up but the mechanical shutter is not used.
Jan 28, 2020 06:07:06 #
Jan 28, 2020 06:52:52 #
Again for curiosity sake you might test your counter program by shooting 100 frames and check to see if the shutter and mirror counts are exactly +100. Then shoot 100 live view shots without allowing the mirror to drop just to see if you counting app is accurate.
Jan 28, 2020 07:42:29 #
Simple call to Canon support would probably get the best answer rather than all this speculation...
Jan 28, 2020 08:13:21 #
Tomfl101 wrote:
Again for curiosity sake you might test your counter program by shooting 100 frames and check to see if the shutter and mirror counts are exactly +100. Then shoot 100 live view shots without allowing the mirror to drop just to see if you counting app is accurate.
The problem seems to be that the mirror count is higher then the shutter count. Shooting in Live View where the mirror stays up would cause the mirror count to be lower, not higher.
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Jan 28, 2020 10:26:26 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
I just checked the 80D manual (don't have the camera) and it does have Mirror Lockup. That is a possible reason for the difference between the two numbers. When you perform MLU it doesn't open the shutter, only lifts the mirror out of the way (to reduce camera shake when making relatively long exposures). If you don't take a shot and cancel MLU, there wouldn't be any shutter actuation recorded.
Personally I can't imagine doing that over 2000 times. And I'd think doing no shots after MLU would be offset to some extent by sometimes taking multiple shots after MLU.
As far as camera shake reduction the effect of Live View is similar, except that both the mirror lifts out of the way and the shutter opens... so that wouldn't result in a difference. I suspect more people today use Live View than use MLU.
But an "old school" photographer might be in the habit of using MLU... especially someone who came from shooting, say, a Pentax 6x7 medium format camera, which was notorious for camera shake blur issues due to the massive mirror slapping around inside it. The first version of that camera didn't have MLU, so users would try to avoid using shutter speeds 1/30 to 2 seconds. The later iteration of the camera had MLU.
Everyone is correct, that Live View both lifts the mirror and opens the shutter. However, each time you take a shot during Live View, the camera performs another shutter actuation without first dropping the mirror. This would make for more shutter actuations than mirror actuations... just the opposite of what's being reported in this case.
Not sure it matters very much. Either way, that's a very "low mileage" 80D. It's just barely broken in and has more than 90% of it's projected 100,000 click life span remaining. Plus most of those shutter life projections are very conservative... If a camera survives the first weeks of use, it is usually good to go well beyond what the engineers suggest. The very rare early failure would cause the average life expectancy to be reduced.
It's far from scientific (a voluntary survey) and there really aren't enough data points to judge the 80D at https://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/canon_eos_80d.htm... But if you step back and look at the 70D and 60D, older models with a larger sample and similar shutter life expectancy, the majority lasted well beyond 100,000 clicks and around half or more were still alive after between 150,000 and 250,000 actuations.
https://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/canon_eos70d.htm
https://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/canon_eos60d.htm
Though there's a bigger database for them, 50D and earlier were a significantly different design an build, although their shutter is probably similar and expected life was the same 100K. However, failures aren't limited to only the shutter... even though we use it's actuations as measure of a camera's use. Not all shutter actuations are equal, either. For example, a camera that was only ever used for still photos but has a high click count might have only accumulated a few hours total time on its image sensor and other electronic components downstream from that. OTOH, a camera that was used for a lot of video work might have a very low shutter actuation count, but hundreds or even thousands of hours of operating time on its sensor and other electronic components.
I can see where the original poster is questioning the accuracy of the report on their particular camera due to this discrepancy. The very low count should be reassuring. Maybe a question emailed to the folks who wrote the software used to get the shutter and mirror count would shed some light on things.
Personally I can't imagine doing that over 2000 times. And I'd think doing no shots after MLU would be offset to some extent by sometimes taking multiple shots after MLU.
As far as camera shake reduction the effect of Live View is similar, except that both the mirror lifts out of the way and the shutter opens... so that wouldn't result in a difference. I suspect more people today use Live View than use MLU.
But an "old school" photographer might be in the habit of using MLU... especially someone who came from shooting, say, a Pentax 6x7 medium format camera, which was notorious for camera shake blur issues due to the massive mirror slapping around inside it. The first version of that camera didn't have MLU, so users would try to avoid using shutter speeds 1/30 to 2 seconds. The later iteration of the camera had MLU.
Everyone is correct, that Live View both lifts the mirror and opens the shutter. However, each time you take a shot during Live View, the camera performs another shutter actuation without first dropping the mirror. This would make for more shutter actuations than mirror actuations... just the opposite of what's being reported in this case.
Not sure it matters very much. Either way, that's a very "low mileage" 80D. It's just barely broken in and has more than 90% of it's projected 100,000 click life span remaining. Plus most of those shutter life projections are very conservative... If a camera survives the first weeks of use, it is usually good to go well beyond what the engineers suggest. The very rare early failure would cause the average life expectancy to be reduced.
It's far from scientific (a voluntary survey) and there really aren't enough data points to judge the 80D at https://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/canon_eos_80d.htm... But if you step back and look at the 70D and 60D, older models with a larger sample and similar shutter life expectancy, the majority lasted well beyond 100,000 clicks and around half or more were still alive after between 150,000 and 250,000 actuations.
https://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/canon_eos70d.htm
https://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/canon_eos60d.htm
Though there's a bigger database for them, 50D and earlier were a significantly different design an build, although their shutter is probably similar and expected life was the same 100K. However, failures aren't limited to only the shutter... even though we use it's actuations as measure of a camera's use. Not all shutter actuations are equal, either. For example, a camera that was only ever used for still photos but has a high click count might have only accumulated a few hours total time on its image sensor and other electronic components downstream from that. OTOH, a camera that was used for a lot of video work might have a very low shutter actuation count, but hundreds or even thousands of hours of operating time on its sensor and other electronic components.
I can see where the original poster is questioning the accuracy of the report on their particular camera due to this discrepancy. The very low count should be reassuring. Maybe a question emailed to the folks who wrote the software used to get the shutter and mirror count would shed some light on things.
Jan 28, 2020 12:35:16 #
So I posted this earlier but I guess it was on another 80D shutter count thread. So here is a screenshot of what I thought was going here...
authorizeduser wrote:
Anyone want to comment on this? Not that it reall... (show quote)
Jan 28, 2020 14:20:57 #
I often do Live View as a look at composition (mirror count adds one) but then don’t take the photo (shutter count adds zero).
Jan 28, 2020 18:58:54 #
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