Paying person in photo: I'm thinking about having a jigsaw puzzle made from one of my photos. This is a very popular image that would probably sell a couple of hundred puzzles. The...

Rufe Loc: Missouri

I'm thinking about having a jigsaw puzzle made from one of my photos. This is a very popular image that would probably sell a couple of hundred puzzles. The question is, there is one person in the photo, how much compensation is normally paid to that person. She allowed me to take the photo, but wants some type of compensation if I sell puzzles of the image.

PixelStan77 Loc: Vermont/Chicago

Rufe wrote:

I'm thinking about having a jigsaw puzzle made from one of my photos. This is a very popular image that would probably sell a couple of hundred puzzles. The question is, there is one person in the photo, how much compensation is normally paid to that person. She allowed me to take the photo, but wants some type of compensation if I sell puzzles of the image.

Whatever you two agree on. What makes it a popular image?

cascoly Loc: seattle

how did she 'allow' you to take the image? did she sign a model release? (that would specify payment terms). otherwise you'll be negotiating after the fact

there is no 'normal' payment

-------------------
separate issue - how will you sell this puzzle? if you're selling it yourself, it's very difficult to be found. the cost of having a, presumably, physical puzzle leaves little margin for profit -- you have upfront sunk costs of producing the puzzles. you'd have to sell 80-90% of the puzzles you have made to start to show a profit

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

cascoly wrote:

how did she 'allow' you to take the image? did she... (show quote)

I don't know how you come up with your 80-90% figure without knowing what the person wants to be paid, how many puzzles will be made, how much it costs to make them, and how much they will sell for. Hopefully the OP can negotiate a payment that will allow him to make a reasonable profit.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Rufe wrote:

I'm thinking about having a jigsaw puzzle made from one of my photos. This is a very popular image that would probably sell a couple of hundred puzzles. The question is, there is one person in the photo, how much compensation is normally paid to that person. She allowed me to take the photo, but wants some type of compensation if I sell puzzles of the image.

And this is what separates amateurs from pros. . .

All kidding aside, she's not your partner, so she shouldn't be looking for a percentage. On the other hand, you blew it by not obtaining a signed model release with a deal on compensation. At this point if she wants $1000 or more, you are at her mercy. Time to start negotiating and find out what she feels is fair, and for pete's sake get it in writing. Her compensation should not be directly tied to how many puzzles are sold. If she insists, move on to another model.

Hamltnblue Loc: Springfield PA

Even if the person wants nothing, the number can be accurate or worse.
Design and production has a cost.
Based on that cost and sell price, there is an amount that must be sold to break even. After that point you make money. Before that point you lose money.

cascoly Loc: seattle

JohnSwanda wrote:

I don't know how you come up with your 80-90% figure without knowing what the person wants to be paid, how many puzzles will be made, how much it costs to make them, and how much they will sell for. Hopefully the OP can negotiate a payment that will allow him to make a reasonable profit.

I just did a quick mental calc, having done this sort of stuff before

just now I did quick estimate of cost of puzzle (looking at what fineartamerica, Vistaprint et al charge , amt of reasonable profit based on competition then simple calculation of profit when 80% sold

with cost of $20, profit of $5 and 10 units, after you've sold 80% you'd just break even; with a profit off $100 after swelling all.

for 100 units at 80% you're again breaking even (since cost + profit is the same), with a profit of $1000 after selling all

you can't add to much to the cost/puzzle since you're competing against companies who do their own construction, and sell large numbers with small profit.

we can quibble over the numbers, but fact remains, selling from individual websites is vanishingly small unless you also spend mega$ for placement -- you'd need to sell most of your inventory before you see a profit. (and doing single units after each sale adds additional cost for your time repeating the setup)

Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC

Start here...
https://www.asmp.org/property-model-releases/

btw, you'll likely loose personal property coverage on your kit from homeowner's insurance policy the moment you generate a revenue stream from your work... You are also likely required by law to report your taxable earnings to federal; state and local taxing authorities... think careful about this... having coverage dropped and being charged a healthy premium for commercial liability is a hurtle not to be taken lightly...

FYI: in order to obtain permit to shoot in public space you will also have to furnish proof of commercial liability coverage. Word!

LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY

Rufe wrote:

I'm thinking about having a jigsaw puzzle made from one of my photos. This is a very popular image that would probably sell a couple of hundred puzzles. The question is, there is one person in the photo, how much compensation is normally paid to that person. She allowed me to take the photo, but wants some type of compensation if I sell puzzles of the image.

Do a thorough (and realistic) computation of production costs, taxes, etc versus income and use that to guide you in making an offer to the model. If you can't come to terms that you both are happy with then use a different shot or shoot that one over with a different model with a model release and all negotiations done up front.
Since this seems to be your first effort, and a limited production run at that, be prepared to lose money. These ventures are almost always more costly then they appear at the outset. Learning as you go has a price. If you think this is something you will want to pursue and expand on then please do yourself a favor and hire a lawyer.
Good Luck!

jim quist Loc: Missouri

Give her a one time fee

User ID

Don't you intend to continue making images,
more or less indefinitely ? If so, just move on.
Dabbling in things that are more trouble than
they're worth is such a waste. You made this
popular image and you will make more. Wash,
rinse, repeat.

Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal

Unless this is a too wonderful, exotic, unique picture- pass.
Or just give her a dozen puzzles.

Don, the 2nd son Loc: Crowded Florida

Harry0 wrote:

Unless this is a too wonderful, exotic, unique picture- pass.
Or just give her a dozen puzzles.

Then move on. Some awfully GOOD advice has been given above, I think.

hammond

Why not work her compensation into the per-unit cost of puzzle's sold?

Idea 1: Give her $X for each puzzle SOLD and calculate that into your costs

Idea 2: Give her X% of the PROFIT for each puzzle sold

Idea 3: Give her X% of the total PROFIT of the product development - she would get a profit contingent on selling enough puzzles to make the entire print run profitable.

--> Perhaps ask her to put in some additional capital to share the risk of the investment?

+++

It would be helpful if you could post the picture here so we could better understand why the subject feels they have added unique value to the product.

Seems there are a number of ways to pay her 'something' based on the success of the project without adding to the capital expense of the project. Get creative, and work something out.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I doubt that she could force you to pay her, but would it be worth going to court? Ask her what she thinks is fair. A percentage of each sale would be reasonable, rather than an up-front payment. "Commercial" means using an image for advertising, which doesn't apply in this case. If you took the picture of her in a public place, she probably couldn't demand anything.