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Jan 3, 2020 14:05:48   #
PhotogHobbyist Loc: Bradford, PA
 
How right you are. I tried selling cars once, it was a failure on my and the dealer's part. Sales people need to know and believe in the product they sell.

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Jan 4, 2020 07:18:31   #
JoeJoe
 
burkphoto wrote:
Chances are also good that a camera store clerk gets a "spiff" (incentive commission) for recommending certain gear, and that will be the first thing they push.

A good camera store clerk will follow a consultative sales approach, and ask plenty of questions to determine budget, level of knowledge, interests, intended uses, etc. The answers may be entirely, "I don't know," but more likely will reveal SOMETHING to steer a buyer in the general direction of what's appropriate.

Back in the early 1970s, when I was in high school, a friend of mine introduced me to her father. He was a prominent heart surgeon then, and rather affluent (Corvette for weekend jaunts to their mountain chalet, Mercedes as a daily driver, expensive jewelry for the wife...). He decided to become a photographer. So out came the wallet, and in came a huge leather case with two Nikon F2 bodies and six prime lenses.

While he was perfectly within his rights to buy such a system, it was the classic example of GAS leading to "Ready? FIRE! Aim? Uhh, whuuh — what the frip is aim?"

When he died, his daughter found the bag in the front hall closet, both bodies loaded with film, four rolls of outdated Kodachrome 64 in one side pocket, with six pre-paid processing mailers. In the other were the unopened packets containing camera manuals and lens manuals and warranty cards.

She said he gave up on photography when he got his first two rolls of slides back — one was blank (film leader didn't catch on the take-up spool), and the other was so poorly exposed it was useless. He "didn't have the time to learn another craft as complex as heart surgery," went the family joke.

Quite obviously, that was the wrong camera setup for the good doc to purchase. But the camera store clerk had smelled the GA$$...
Chances are also good that a camera store clerk ge... (show quote)



I use my local store who are knowledgeable and have expert sales staff who know their cameras... They give good solid advice (maybe that's a UK difference / thing).. Maybe you have had bad experiences that steers you away from retailers … I've had the opposite so would disagree....

This was never about buying the best kit and then not using it albeit film cameras... This is about beginners asking advice from someone experienced about entry level digital kit available now... Regardless of occupation or status in life or should I say sensible buyers thinking of taking up a new hobby that they will more than likely be successful at as they are not scared to ask.... But the majority are scared to answer....

You can become nostalgic about your experiences from the film days but kit and the ability to learn are now far different and more available in your home so if your unsure just youtube it and off you go again.....

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Jan 4, 2020 15:16:54   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
JoeJoe wrote:
I use my local store who are knowledgeable and have expert sales staff who know their cameras... They give good solid advice (maybe that's a UK difference / thing).. Maybe you have had bad experiences that steers you away from retailers … I've had the opposite so would disagree....

This was never about buying the best kit and then not using it albeit film cameras... This is about beginners asking advice from someone experienced about entry level digital kit available now... Regardless of occupation or status in life or should I say sensible buyers thinking of taking up a new hobby that they will more than likely be successful at as they are not scared to ask.... But the majority are scared to answer....

You can become nostalgic about your experiences from the film days but kit and the ability to learn are now far different and more available in your home so if your unsure just youtube it and off you go again.....
I use my local store who are knowledgeable and hav... (show quote)


As a former systems manager in IT, trainer in a school portrait company, and presently a training content creator for private clients, I'm well aware of learning opportunities available today, and also keenly aware that too damn few people are motivated enough to take advantage of them. Most of the questions we get here on UHH can be answered with a simple Google, Yahoo, Bing, or Dogpile search, in a few minutes or less. Yet in 2020, some folks still have no idea what a search engine does.

If you have local camera stores in the UK, great. Most of us outside of a top 20 population center here in the USA have to drive 50-75 miles to find one, and when we do, their selection is sparse and their knowledge is limited. When I lived in Charlotte, NC (metro area has 1.4 million people), a few decades ago, there were three camera stores worthy of the name. The best one, a local dealer, closed first. The giant mall chain store shut down its Charlotte stores soon after, and the worst of the three stores barely hangs on today. A new outfit moved in in the last decade, and they're actually decent.

50 years ago, you COULD find a great local dealer where I grew up, in a town of 60,000. We had two, and they thrived. I knew them by name. But the big NYC stores and a few other large retailers cornered the market long ago. Prices are mostly fixed, competition is an illusion, and the folks behind the counters are not necessarily knowledgeable or helpful.

When I went to Photo Marketing Association International's shows in the late 1990s, there would be 45,000+ people from all over the world, buying inventory for their camera stores, labs, and studios, and going to seminars on digital imaging. That association lasted for many decades, but evaporated (merged into CES, really) in the early 2010s. The 2010 PMAI in Anaheim was my last. It was sparsely attended. The writing was on the wall... The Internet, smartphones, and social media were eating the camera stores' breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

So in the USA, unless you can drop into B&H, Adorama, Cameta Camera, Roberts, KEH, MPB, or a handful of other reputable dealers, you need to do a bit of research. http://www.dpreview.com and http://www.dxomark.com are two places I'd start.

I could name five or six good choices for beginner cameras, but IMHO, that would just be WRONG. Photography is a relatively expensive hobby to just dive into. That's why I always tell people to learn enough to get hooked, first. Read some cheap books on digital photography. Read and watch reviews online. Borrow or rent a few of the entry-level systems. Perhaps buy one. But know whether you can live with it, first!

It's really easy to buy a device you won't use because it does not fit your hands well, feels awkward, or the menus don't make any logical sense. We're all different, and we learn at different paces, in different ways. All cameras make exposures, but otherwise, they are not the same.

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Jan 4, 2020 15:38:20   #
JoeJoe
 
burkphoto wrote:
As a former systems manager in IT, trainer in a school portrait company, and presently a training content creator for private clients, I'm well aware of learning opportunities available today, and also keenly aware that too damn few people are motivated enough to take advantage of them. Most of the questions we get here on UHH can be answered with a simple Google, Yahoo, Bing, or Dogpile search, in a few minutes or less. Yet in 2020, some folks still have no idea what a search engine does.

If you have local camera stores in the UK, great. Most of us outside of a top 20 population center here in the USA have to drive 50-75 miles to find one, and when we do, their selection is sparse and their knowledge is limited. When I lived in Charlotte, NC (metro area has 1.4 million people), a few decades ago, there were three camera stores worthy of the name. The best one, a local dealer, closed first. The giant mall chain store shut down its Charlotte stores soon after, and the worst of the three stores barely hangs on today. A new outfit moved in in the last decade, and they're actually decent.

50 years ago, you COULD find a great local dealer where I grew up, in a town of 60,000. We had two, and they thrived. I knew them by name. But the big NYC stores and a few other large retailers cornered the market long ago. Prices are mostly fixed, competition is an illusion, and the folks behind the counters are not necessarily knowledgeable or helpful.

When I went to Photo Marketing Association International's shows in the late 1990s, there would be 45,000+ people from all over the world, buying inventory for their camera stores, labs, and studios, and going to seminars on digital imaging. That association lasted for many decades, but evaporated (merged into CES, really) in the early 2010s. The 2010 PMAI in Anaheim was my last. It was sparsely attended. The writing was on the wall... The Internet, smartphones, and social media were eating the camera stores' breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

So in the USA, unless you can drop into B&H, Adorama, Cameta Camera, Roberts, KEH, MPB, or a handful of other reputable dealers, you need to do a bit of research. http://www.dpreview.com and http://www.dxomark.com are two places I'd start.

I could name five or six good choices for beginner cameras, but IMHO, that would just be WRONG. Photography is a relatively expensive hobby to just dive into. That's why I always tell people to learn enough to get hooked, first. Read some cheap books on digital photography. Read and watch reviews online. Borrow or rent a few of the entry-level systems. Perhaps buy one. But know whether you can live with it, first!

It's really easy to buy a device you won't use because it does not fit your hands well, feels awkward, or the menus don't make any logical sense. We're all different, and we learn at different paces, in different ways. All cameras make exposures, but otherwise, they are not the same.
As a former systems manager in IT, trainer in a sc... (show quote)


I've recommended the same camera to 4 people in the past 12 months..... All are still shooting and learning from the net..... 2 do family, 1 does sport & the other uses in his voluntary business ….

One is now getting to be a pain in the backside...LOL.... Only joking … He has became hooked completely and is at this moment just adding another lens to his growing collection...

IMHO its the advice / support given at the outset that dictates ...If they don't ask then you can guarantee the camera will become a paperweight very shortly … All 4 quiz every time I see them so I'm comfortable that they had the right choice......

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Jan 4, 2020 19:57:47   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
JoeJoe wrote:
I've recommended the same camera to 4 people in the past 12 months..... All are still shooting and learning from the net..... 2 do family, 1 does sport & the other uses in his voluntary business ….

One is now getting to be a pain in the backside...LOL.... Only joking … He has became hooked completely and is at this moment just adding another lens to his growing collection...

IMHO its the advice / support given at the outset that dictates ...If they don't ask then you can guarantee the camera will become a paperweight very shortly … All 4 quiz every time I see them so I'm comfortable that they had the right choice......
I've recommended the same camera to 4 people in th... (show quote)


There are so many right choices, it's hard to choose, IF you know about them. Of course, Canon and Nikon make some cheap dSLR models. Then there are midrange units from Panasonic, Olympus, Fujifilm, and Sony. But do you want stills? Video? One more than the other? Maximum image quality for the price? Easiest control layout and menus? Wide choice of native lenses?

When I have a conversation with a wannabe photographer, I may recommend looking at a few out of a dozen cameras from those six manufacturers, based on their answers to my questions:

Budget?
Interests?
NEED to photograph ______? Why?
WANT to photograph ______? Why?
Physical ability to carry weight?
Need for compact travel camera?
Any environmental (weather resistance) needs?

...and on it goes.

All that said, it IS rather difficult to buy a truly bad new camera in 2020. Most are very capable and usable.

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Jan 5, 2020 04:04:12   #
JoeJoe
 
burkphoto wrote:
There are so many right choices, it's hard to choose, IF you know about them. Of course, Canon and Nikon make some cheap dSLR models. Then there are midrange units from Panasonic, Olympus, Fujifilm, and Sony. But do you want stills? Video? One more than the other? Maximum image quality for the price? Easiest control layout and menus? Wide choice of native lenses?

When I have a conversation with a wannabe photographer, I may recommend looking at a few out of a dozen cameras from those six manufacturers, based on their answers to my questions:

Budget?
Interests?
NEED to photograph ______? Why?
WANT to photograph ______? Why?
Physical ability to carry weight?
Need for compact travel camera?
Any environmental (weather resistance) needs?

...and on it goes.

All that said, it IS rather difficult to buy a truly bad new camera in 2020. Most are very capable and usable.
There are so many right choices, it's hard to choo... (show quote)


The budget dictates entry level unless you want an old used camera that you don't know the history of.... I bought a water damaged Fuji lens a few years ago that wasn't in the description on ebay…. High risk

DSLR is a dinosaur technology in this day and age and the big two only offer DSLR or compacts.... So they get ruled out quickly on the grounds of focussing issues & low light capability...

I would say only 1 real contender which is highly regarded even scoring up with the big boys on DP reviews...Sony at the moment are the kings of entry level ASPC (Mirrorless)....

Add to it 4 out of 10 sonys feature in DPs review "The best camera bargains of 2019" and the Sonys cameras dating back to 2012 in this review...…???? Just amplifies how slow the big 2 have reacted to being overtaken over the last few years in the business of attracting new consumers and also releasing new technology... At Nikons cost now #3 in the list with Canon soon to follow that trend...

A 2014 A6000 still regarded as one of the best all time entry level cameras...If not the best IMHO...…. ????

I was so impressed that I even bought one myself as a pocket camera.... Its still impressing now...

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