For fill flash, what lenses are best for a good photo?
Dec 31, 2019 17:53:36 #
ballsafire
Loc: Lafayette, Louisiana
For FP Flash (fill-flash portrait) using high-speed-sync to get rid of shadows under the eyes or under a hat in sunlight what lens would you use or recommend? I use a crop sensor Canon Rebel and a ful frame Canon 5D classic body. Please make your answer as simple to understand as possible, thanks in advance.
Dec 31, 2019 18:01:28 #
Avoid wide lenses cuz the distance-governed
fall-off of the flash can look really screwed up,
even tho it's not full flash but just fill-in. The
background can look oddly dark while closest
foreground objects can look too hot.
There are ways around some of the problems,
but since you asked to keep it simple, avoid
wide lenses :-)
OTOH if you use long-ish lenses, you risk red
eye unless you increase the distance between
flash and lens. Red eye happens when the lens
and flash are nearly in alignment. Whatever
height your flash may be above your lens, if
the subject is more distant then the alignment
becomes more closely aligned.
Alignment stuff is basic trigonometry, but you
asked to keep it simple, so no long-ish lenses
unless you raise the flash via a flash bracket.
FWIW, a bounce card rather than a soft dome
increases effective on-camera flash height by
about 50% [just picture it in your mind's eye].
fall-off of the flash can look really screwed up,
even tho it's not full flash but just fill-in. The
background can look oddly dark while closest
foreground objects can look too hot.
There are ways around some of the problems,
but since you asked to keep it simple, avoid
wide lenses :-)
OTOH if you use long-ish lenses, you risk red
eye unless you increase the distance between
flash and lens. Red eye happens when the lens
and flash are nearly in alignment. Whatever
height your flash may be above your lens, if
the subject is more distant then the alignment
becomes more closely aligned.
Alignment stuff is basic trigonometry, but you
asked to keep it simple, so no long-ish lenses
unless you raise the flash via a flash bracket.
FWIW, a bounce card rather than a soft dome
increases effective on-camera flash height by
about 50% [just picture it in your mind's eye].
Dec 31, 2019 18:03:33 #
I would worry more about the flash than the lens that has nothing to do with the flash/camera synchronization*...
What you need to worry about:
- Reach of the flash (guide number)
- Duration of the flash
then..
- Camera synchronization speed
- Front of back curtain flash mode selection (makes a difference if stuff is moving when using the flash and using a low speed.
-----
* Unless the shutter is incorporated into the lens... But those are few professional lenses.
What you need to worry about:
- Reach of the flash (guide number)
- Duration of the flash
then..
- Camera synchronization speed
- Front of back curtain flash mode selection (makes a difference if stuff is moving when using the flash and using a low speed.
-----
* Unless the shutter is incorporated into the lens... But those are few professional lenses.
Dec 31, 2019 18:13:39 #
Dec 31, 2019 18:37:40 #
You can use any lens using fill flash. (1) Expose for your environment so the overall exposure is what you want, (2) use a low flash setting.
Dec 31, 2019 19:54:39 #
rick_n_wv
Loc: Charleston WV
Vietnam Vet wrote:
You can use any lens using fill flash. (1) Expose for your environment so the overall exposure is what you want, (2) use a low flash setting.
Some really good replies. Also the bounce card idea. There are a lot on the market or you can go by a craft store and get a 8X10 sheet of bright white soft material. Can't think of the name but it is soft and flexible. Cut to size (maybe 4X6) and use a rubber band to hold it to the flash. Point the flash head straight up. Works great for fill light and catch light in the eyes. You can even bend it to adjust the amount of bounce. Or spend a little more and get a flash thingy.
https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Flash-Diffuser-Reflector-Speedlight/dp/B078T2XNR1/ref=sr_1_24?crid=157WEINV0EFBG&keywords=rogue+flashbender&qid=1577839984&sprefix=rogue+flash%2Caps%2C168&sr=8-24
Dec 31, 2019 20:16:25 #
Alright! I'll try to keep it as simple as possible but fits we need to untangle your question. It's important that you understand a few basic concepts.
Flash fill does NOT eliminate unwanted shadows, it just adds a controlled amount of flash-light (in this case in a portrait) to both the highlights and shadows and especially making the shadows areas more transparent and detailed. If the shadows are well placed as if you were shooting in a studio and directing the lightning bu using early morning or late afternoon directional sunlight, you can use flash to illuminate the shadows by not eliminate them. If, however, you are shooting in bright sunlight at around high-noon, with the sun directly overhead, you will still get those unwanted shadows under the eyes nose, and lips but the flas will lighten the shadows so they don't appear too dark or almost black. So.. the trick is to move the subjects int a better natural light pattern, shoot at a better time of day, use subdued or open-shad light and use the flash when required to modify the shadows.
If you are shooting traditional portraits, a normal to the moderately longer lens or zoom focal length is recommended for good perspective and a comfortable working distance. For your particular camera, some suggestions would be a 35mm focal length for full-length and group portraits, a 50mm doe 3/4 length portraits, and a 75mm to 105mm for head and shoulder and head-shot images. These recommendations apply whether you are using flash or not.
If you are using a flash unit with high-speed synch, that is especially good for flash fill use. Since your flash will synchronize at all the practical shutter speeds, one exposure method is to expose for the flash and select a shutter speed that will admit the desired level of ambient light. For example, on a bright sunny day, if you can get you flash to properly expose the subject at f/16, at ISO100 if you set the shutter for 1/100 or 1/125 sec, you will get a nicely balanced ratio of about 1:2 . OR you can simply expose for the existing natural light and adjust the flash for output about 2 stops below the ambient light exposure. OR- you came with a dedicated flash unit, in programmed mode may be able to combine the flash and ambient light exposures automatically. These methods apply when the Speedlight or flash unit is mounted on the camera and use as the eFILL source.
If, however, the flash unit is used off-camera- off the camera/subject axis, that is a different story. There, the flash is used to crate light and shadow situations and the ambient light becomes the fill.
So- the LENS type, assuming you mean focal length, has nothing directly to do with flash fill except the working distance with the proper focal length, for portraiture, will make exposure balancing more easily obtained. For certain kinds of portraits, where you want to include more background detail, you can use a moderately wider lens with flash fill but you need to make sure your flash unit will cover the field of view.
Weh you want to blur the background in a portrait, you will need to use a wider aperture, so you need a flash unit that can be powered down to a very low output to accommodate that technique. Some dedicated speedlights will do that automatically via TTL exposure control.
I hope this helps. Testing and practice will reveal your final best method.
Flash fill does NOT eliminate unwanted shadows, it just adds a controlled amount of flash-light (in this case in a portrait) to both the highlights and shadows and especially making the shadows areas more transparent and detailed. If the shadows are well placed as if you were shooting in a studio and directing the lightning bu using early morning or late afternoon directional sunlight, you can use flash to illuminate the shadows by not eliminate them. If, however, you are shooting in bright sunlight at around high-noon, with the sun directly overhead, you will still get those unwanted shadows under the eyes nose, and lips but the flas will lighten the shadows so they don't appear too dark or almost black. So.. the trick is to move the subjects int a better natural light pattern, shoot at a better time of day, use subdued or open-shad light and use the flash when required to modify the shadows.
If you are shooting traditional portraits, a normal to the moderately longer lens or zoom focal length is recommended for good perspective and a comfortable working distance. For your particular camera, some suggestions would be a 35mm focal length for full-length and group portraits, a 50mm doe 3/4 length portraits, and a 75mm to 105mm for head and shoulder and head-shot images. These recommendations apply whether you are using flash or not.
If you are using a flash unit with high-speed synch, that is especially good for flash fill use. Since your flash will synchronize at all the practical shutter speeds, one exposure method is to expose for the flash and select a shutter speed that will admit the desired level of ambient light. For example, on a bright sunny day, if you can get you flash to properly expose the subject at f/16, at ISO100 if you set the shutter for 1/100 or 1/125 sec, you will get a nicely balanced ratio of about 1:2 . OR you can simply expose for the existing natural light and adjust the flash for output about 2 stops below the ambient light exposure. OR- you came with a dedicated flash unit, in programmed mode may be able to combine the flash and ambient light exposures automatically. These methods apply when the Speedlight or flash unit is mounted on the camera and use as the eFILL source.
If, however, the flash unit is used off-camera- off the camera/subject axis, that is a different story. There, the flash is used to crate light and shadow situations and the ambient light becomes the fill.
So- the LENS type, assuming you mean focal length, has nothing directly to do with flash fill except the working distance with the proper focal length, for portraiture, will make exposure balancing more easily obtained. For certain kinds of portraits, where you want to include more background detail, you can use a moderately wider lens with flash fill but you need to make sure your flash unit will cover the field of view.
Weh you want to blur the background in a portrait, you will need to use a wider aperture, so you need a flash unit that can be powered down to a very low output to accommodate that technique. Some dedicated speedlights will do that automatically via TTL exposure control.
I hope this helps. Testing and practice will reveal your final best method.
Dec 31, 2019 20:45:07 #
"...get rid of shadows under the eyes or under a hat in sunlight...)
Yep, they are pesky... most commercial shooters typically use a horizontal reflector just out of frame...
White foam core is cheap and works well... 30"x40" is idea for a single person...
In the studio I'll often have the hair stylist or makeup artist hold this in place against the talent's leading arm or chest...
However if I'm alone with the talent in the studio I've got a rather solid music stand that tilts and has a lower lip and clips. EZ to adjust height and tilt... Works like a charm...
The lens really is pretty much irrelevant as long is it's over a 75mm equivalent...
There are compelling reasons why the 70-200 (or 80-200 and 70-210) are workhorses for portraiture...
Ok, If you look close in this first example you'll see the 30"-40" foam core reflected in this talents iris...
She has very deep set Asian eyes so the bounced fill was absolutely critical to this image...
Lens was at 460mm (I prefer long glass for portraiture).
The second example was with a pop-up on camera flash with strong sunlight as a hair kicker.
Here the optic was a 50-150mm f/2.8 on a crop body i.e. 75-225mm equivalent.
Final thoughts? Millinery narratives are an extreme challenge... typically requiring a horizontal strip box placed on the floor angled up to fill under the brim... or a silver reflector in same position on location.
Hope this helps ballsafire
Have a fabulous New Year!
.
Yep, they are pesky... most commercial shooters typically use a horizontal reflector just out of frame...
White foam core is cheap and works well... 30"x40" is idea for a single person...
In the studio I'll often have the hair stylist or makeup artist hold this in place against the talent's leading arm or chest...
However if I'm alone with the talent in the studio I've got a rather solid music stand that tilts and has a lower lip and clips. EZ to adjust height and tilt... Works like a charm...
The lens really is pretty much irrelevant as long is it's over a 75mm equivalent...
There are compelling reasons why the 70-200 (or 80-200 and 70-210) are workhorses for portraiture...
Ok, If you look close in this first example you'll see the 30"-40" foam core reflected in this talents iris...
She has very deep set Asian eyes so the bounced fill was absolutely critical to this image...
Lens was at 460mm (I prefer long glass for portraiture).
The second example was with a pop-up on camera flash with strong sunlight as a hair kicker.
Here the optic was a 50-150mm f/2.8 on a crop body i.e. 75-225mm equivalent.
Final thoughts? Millinery narratives are an extreme challenge... typically requiring a horizontal strip box placed on the floor angled up to fill under the brim... or a silver reflector in same position on location.
Hope this helps ballsafire
Have a fabulous New Year!
.
Bounced Fill provided by a piece of 30x40" White Foam Core
(Download)
Illumination with on camera pop-up flash
(Download)
Dec 31, 2019 21:34:30 #
Rongnongno wrote:
br I would worry more about the flash than the le... (show quote)
No need to worry about any of those things.
He is using HSS, so none of that is involved.
Even the "reach" of the flash is usually more
than needed when used only for fill.
@Ballsafire:
Good thing you asked hoggers to keep it
simple ! They could get even worse if you
failed to mention that. Good luck !
Jan 1, 2020 06:37:13 #
billnikon
Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
ballsafire wrote:
For FP Flash (fill-flash portrait) using high-speed-sync to get rid of shadows under the eyes or under a hat in sunlight what lens would you use or recommend? I use a crop sensor Canon Rebel and a ful frame Canon 5D classic body. Please make your answer as simple to understand as possible, thanks in advance.
I use fill in full shade, never took a professional portrait in full sun. Lens is your choice, mine is any focal length between 105 and 200 mm.
Jan 1, 2020 07:57:04 #
ballsafire wrote:
For FP Flash (fill-flash portrait) using high-speed-sync to get rid of shadows under the eyes or under a hat in sunlight what lens would you use or recommend? I use a crop sensor Canon Rebel and a ful frame Canon 5D classic body. Please make your answer as simple to understand as possible, thanks in advance.
You can use whatever lens you wish as long as you understand how the light from your speedlight propagates into the area you are shooting and how close the flash is to the subject(s). First select your focal length, and having done that you can decide what modifiers you'll use for your flash.
The problem with HSS and outdoor settings is that while you can use any shutter speed you wish, the range of the flash is limited because using HSS generally consumes power because of the way the flash pulses for each shot.
As far as light modifiers are concerned, things like A Better Bounce Card and Rogue FlashBenders will provide nice, even light on a subject even with a wide angle lens but the distance between the light and subjects needs to be fairly short.
There are all sorts of DIY solutions to addressing portable bounce devices, ranging from some white hobby foam velcro'd to the head of a speedlight to a 4'x4' sheet of beaded insulation board held by an assistant or a stand with clamps (not great for windy days) - the bigger the "apparent" light source the smoother the shadows. An unmodified speed light either alone or with a dome becomes a point source of light at distances greater than 5-6 feet, and this may open up another can of worms if your goal is to have the most flattering light on your subjects. Edgy, contrasty fill in settings where there are deep shadows from edgy contrasty main light (sunlight).
Best to choose your locations and time of day carefully for the most flattering light. It will go easier.
Jan 1, 2020 08:15:17 #
Jeffcs
Loc: Myrtle Beach South Carolina
Not only can you use fill flash but I often use a reflector for my fill as I prefer the natural light look as it’s the same temperature as the scene your shooting in
This isn’t a lazy way out as fill flash when used correctly looks good as well
Also you avoided light fall off or incomplete coverage if your using wide angle lenses or the “fake look” with flash overpowering the sun
This isn’t a lazy way out as fill flash when used correctly looks good as well
Also you avoided light fall off or incomplete coverage if your using wide angle lenses or the “fake look” with flash overpowering the sun
Jan 1, 2020 08:16:08 #
Keep in mind that flash is concerned with the center of the frame only. A good guide for lenses to use is dictated by the zoom coverage of the flash, usually 24 to 105mm. The flash will zoom automatically to the focal length in use. It is done manually when using the speedlight in manual mode.
If you are using FP (high speed sync.) for fill you know beforehand that the flash will sync. with the camera at any speed. FP flash at close range works very well but it tends to fail when increasing the distance to the subject.
If you are using FP (high speed sync.) for fill you know beforehand that the flash will sync. with the camera at any speed. FP flash at close range works very well but it tends to fail when increasing the distance to the subject.
Jan 1, 2020 09:21:41 #
ballsafire wrote:
For FP Flash (fill-flash portrait) using high-speed-sync to get rid of shadows under the eyes or under a hat in sunlight what lens would you use or recommend? I use a crop sensor Canon Rebel and a ful frame Canon 5D classic body. Please make your answer as simple to understand as possible, thanks in advance.
24-105L.
Jan 1, 2020 09:55:55 #
gvarner
Loc: Central Oregon Coast
Short teles are best for head and shoulder portraits regardless of light source, under 100mm FF equivalent. Fill flash doesn’t need high speed sync. With high speed sync, you’re intent is to reduce the amount of ambient background light on the subject, not necessarily the ambient light on the subject. There are lots of good YouTube videos on how-to for fill flash.
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