GLENBARD Loc: Florida

I've a bunch of past dated film that has been either refrigerated then frozen, or originally frozen for a number of years. 35mm film includes Sensei at least 12 - 15years old, Velvia 50 about 10 years, Provia 100 about 7 to 9 years and some B&W 120 about 6 to 10 years. My 35mm B&W always frozen is dated 2018 so I think it should be ok. I appreciate your thoughts.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

Sounds easy enough to simply try it and see. My belief is that it is all about how the film was stored. If stored in a cool dry place it might be useable for a few years. If stored in a desert climate it might not be good at all. Of course none of us knows anything at all about how the film was stored. Surely though you can try one roll to ascertain how it works out.

I wish you luck,

Dennis

RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA

Stored as you say, it should all be good.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Do a clip test if you can, to judge emulsion speed (it decreases with age). Color may shift some, too.

I do a clip test with a 21-step Tiffen gray scale and an X-Rite Color Checker chart placed under controlled lighting.

Meter a gray card. Expose at base ISO and at 1/3 stop intervals for two stops slower. (Say ISO is 200. Test at 200, 160, 125, 100, 80, 64, and 50.) Fire off three blank frames after the test.

In a darkroom or dark bag, open the camera back (do not rewind!). Cut film across the shutter and attach it with a two inch piece of tape to a new spool from a new snap cap 135 cassette. Remove the remaining film cassette from the camera.

Slide the film and spool in the camera through the felt lips of the cassette shell, and snap on the lid. Put that cassette in the camera, close the back, and rewind the film.

Cut a new leader in the film left over.

Develop the clip test. If you use a lab, label the cassette with film name, process (C41, E6, or B&W), and “CLIP TEST”.

Pick the best frame, and set the camera meter to that ISO for that film...

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

For us "uninformed" people, what the heck is a clip test???

Seems much simpler to just shoot a roll and see what it does.....

GLENBARD Loc: Florida

Thought of a clip test but didn't want to do the color testing because of getting the chemicals. I'll try my Lab and see what they can do for me, but they send out chromes.

ORpilot Loc: Prineville, Or

When I was working on my MFA in Photography, some 30 years ago. I did some research into cold and film. There really isn't much research by Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, and Agfa. They were mostly concerned about film breaking and static electricity strikes. I have had both problems in the cold... I'm talking really cold in temperatures well below 0F. Researchers had discovered undeveloped film from the Arctic and Antarctic explorers from the 1800 and early 1900's. Many films were over 50 yr old. B&W generally was printable as long as it hadn't had any water damage. Quality wasn't to modern standards but the images were there. Color is a different story. Color tends to break down on it's own because it is not 100% silver as B&W is. Another killer is X-Rays and radiation. Radiation is naturally occurring and can be reduced by blocking by lead or other covers. What the reaserchers found was that B&W was quite useable within 10 yrs if properly stored and protected. Color was more like 5 years. Heat is also a killer for color. Most films are a gelatin suspension that sticks to the plastic. Over time the gelatin can break down on its own. It can look like alligator skin. I recently had a student that had 10yr old color print film. He shot the film and had it developed. One roll looked like light leaks and poor color quality and exposures. Another roll was a little week in color but OK. Come to find out, the bad roll have been through the airline X-Rays several times. TSA says it's OK. But that isn't true. At one time I worked for TSA and did several film checks on my own. Depending on the machines used, even one pass could damage film. Rule of thumb: if the film has been properly stored : less than 5 yr, its good. But it's up to you. How much do those photos mean to you? Are you willing to risk those once in a lifetime shots on old film or use new film. Many films especially Pro Films were aged. They had an optimum age for best color. B&W was not the case and needed no aging. Like many things... you pays your money and you take your chances. BTW, Kodachrome was the best color for longevity because it was a dye transfer process. I am still wondering about CD's, DVD's, SD cards, Hard Drives, and other electronic storage.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

I explained how to do it. It is a test using part of a roll of film with “sacrificial” (unimportant) or test exposures on it. The idea is to test for TRUE film speed, which may or may not be the “box” speed.

It can help you set a true ISO for that film stock, OR tell you or your lab how far to push process the film to get the best results from film that already has been exposed.

Scruples Loc: Brooklyn, New York

I'm not really keen about film being frozen. I believe the film emulsion may be separated. The expiration date may not be extended by refrigeration. Film may be damaged by age hence the reddening of photos when processed. This is a result of heat or time. Depending on the type of film, storing film in cool or refrigerated places may be conducive to moisture collecting on the inside of the film cans. It may be best to trash the lot and replace with fresh film.

Happy Shooting!

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

The school portrait lab I worked for ('79 through '96) used to sell tons of film (literally!). We had a huge cooler with temperature and humidity control. Kodak wanted us to keep their professional color negative films (Vericolor II, then Vericolor III, then Portra) at 55°F and 50% relative humidity. They advised against freezing them.

Film containers are tightly sealed at the factory. Moisture is generally not an issue unless you open film while it is colder than the temperature of the environment. Let it warm up before use.

The purpose of film refrigeration is to keep the emulsion characteristics at a consistent sensitivity for as long as possible. Pro films are shipped at the peak of their performance. Refrigeration keeps them there, longer.

Amateur films are shipped immediately after packaging. They usually sit on shelves a lot longer before use. They are generally okay to use without refrigeration before the expiration date. If refrigerated from date of purchase, they will be stable longer. How long, depends on the film, and where the refrigerator is located. If the film is in a lead box inside the 'fridge , all the better... Radiation (cosmic, X-ray, gamma, light, or heat) fogs film over time.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

I've bought several expired lots of film from here at UHH, but only when the seller says it's been kept frozen. Obviously, the film spends at least a week out of the freezer before I receive and put back into my freezer. The only 'issue' I've encountered is a need to add positive exposure compensation when using. I've done some reading of other's experiences posted online. Their experiences jive with my experience of adding +0.7 to +1-stop EC to the entire roll, and then shooting as normal from there and processing based on the film's rated ISO. Some color film has come out with a reddish color cast, that could have come from my exposure or issues in the film (?), but I process the scanned results in LR to my desired result anyway.

The other comment I've found useful is to let the frozen film 'warm' in the refrigerator for a day before using. And then, assure at least an hour at room temperature from the fridge before using.

If you want to sell any of your stock, send me a PM. But, I only buy at a discount, since it is expired after all ....

Scruples Loc: Brooklyn, New York

I have obviously used inferior grades of film. But that was when I was in high school and just fooling around. Back then had set a precedent for me. So I'm somewhat jaded from my youth.

I'm grateful to Mr Burk and you, Mr Sager for setting me straight.

Incidentally, Have a Healthy and Happy Holiday Season!

Happy Shooting!

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

I've been routinely freezing film for many years now and have never experienced any damage due to freezing. However, once I thaw out a film batch, I don't re-freeze it; perhaps damage can occur in such a situation. When I do thaw out frozen film, I do it at a slow pace, and I don't load it into the camera until I am certain it is completely thawed to room temperature. Unless the film is several decades old, trashing the entire lot without at least testing a small portion of it doesn't seem logical to me. Even film over a decade past the printed expiration date, if stored properly, can yield perfectly good results.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

Hahaha.
Put in camera; set ASA; match needles; click shutter; (repeat x number of times); send off for processing; see results.

...
One box?
Throw away.

Scruples Loc: Brooklyn, New York

I stand correct in my error. I have learned from the best here at UHH.

Thank you, Mr Burk and Mr Sager.

Happy Shooting