Forgotten Techniques?
Dec 7, 2019 20:49:57 #
I see all these posts declaring you must have fast-focusing bodies and lenses for sports.
Slow-focusing gear need not apply.
These declarations are usually followed with different methods of adjusting for the limitations of your auto-focus system.
Often imbedded in these threads is the assertion that REAL photographers manually control exposure, as auto-exposure modes can be lacking in getting your subject exposed properly.
What I have NEVER seen mentioned is manual follow-focus and effective panning.
With proper practice, manual follow-focus can be faster than auto-focus, as the photographer doesn't get distracted by other objects in the frame and focus on the wrong one.
Panning action, again with practice, can allow smaller apertures for greater depth of field.
Have these techniques been forgotten completely or have younger folk become so dependent on their equipment that they don't bother to develop those skills?
Slow-focusing gear need not apply.
These declarations are usually followed with different methods of adjusting for the limitations of your auto-focus system.
Often imbedded in these threads is the assertion that REAL photographers manually control exposure, as auto-exposure modes can be lacking in getting your subject exposed properly.
What I have NEVER seen mentioned is manual follow-focus and effective panning.
With proper practice, manual follow-focus can be faster than auto-focus, as the photographer doesn't get distracted by other objects in the frame and focus on the wrong one.
Panning action, again with practice, can allow smaller apertures for greater depth of field.
Have these techniques been forgotten completely or have younger folk become so dependent on their equipment that they don't bother to develop those skills?
Dec 7, 2019 20:52:14 #
Manual focus on moving subjects with modern DLSRs? Post a few examples to show us you haven't maybe been enjoying the games too much today.
Dec 7, 2019 21:06:03 #
No need for "examples".
It's a simple question, "Are these techniques no longer used?, if not, why?"
This begs other questions, "Why would you not use follow-focus on modern DSLRs? Is it NEVER needed?"
Followed closely by, "Why insist on using manual exposure, when appropriate, but not manual focus?"
Remember, using modern DSLRs is requiring a totally new way of thinking, for me.
I'm just trying to find out the "why's" behind the "because's".
It's a simple question, "Are these techniques no longer used?, if not, why?"
This begs other questions, "Why would you not use follow-focus on modern DSLRs? Is it NEVER needed?"
Followed closely by, "Why insist on using manual exposure, when appropriate, but not manual focus?"
Remember, using modern DSLRs is requiring a totally new way of thinking, for me.
I'm just trying to find out the "why's" behind the "because's".
Dec 7, 2019 21:12:12 #
Najataagihe wrote:
Have these techniques been forgotten completely or have younger folk become so dependent on their equipment that they don't bother to develop those skills?
Have these techniques been forgotten completely or have younger folk become so dependent on their equipment that they don't bother to develop those skills?
Some folks use old tried and true techniques and some use modern technology. A discussion would probably be 10 pages of "my way is best".
If you want to describe the process you use, and why, go at it. That would be the best way to start the conversation you are looking for.
Some will learn from your experience.
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Dec 7, 2019 21:12:19 #
Modern DSLR's, especially professional-grade / sports models, have much more capable computers to continuously modify / update the lens focus, much faster and accurately than a human can. BTW - manual focus and manual exposure have no direct relationship beyond both being related to photography. When you try to relate them, you don't make any sense since they are unrelated.
Panning is a different skill than follow-focus and still very relevant. Panning too is supported by computer-aided modern lens technology, specifically the IS / VR panning mode from available lenses, typically the type 2 setting.
Panning is a different skill than follow-focus and still very relevant. Panning too is supported by computer-aided modern lens technology, specifically the IS / VR panning mode from available lenses, typically the type 2 setting.
Dec 7, 2019 21:13:35 #
dayranch
Loc: Douglasville Georgia
Hello Najataagihe!
Cell phone photography is the technology today that some photographers start their passion for still images. As you know that is just point and shoot photography, us old School photographers who started out with flim have that manual mode embed in our photography DNA.
Cell phone photography is the technology today that some photographers start their passion for still images. As you know that is just point and shoot photography, us old School photographers who started out with flim have that manual mode embed in our photography DNA.
Dec 7, 2019 21:24:03 #
Najataagihe wrote:
No need for "examples". br br It's a si... (show quote)
Besides a processor/computer being faster than a human the main reason is that modern DSLRs compared to SLRs of the past have pretty poor focusing screens with out the "split" and "checkerboard" focus that aided manual focus - for manual focus in general modern DSLRs suck let alone trying to do a follow focus.
That is why there are cameras like the Nikon D500, 5D and Canon 7DII, 5Ds/5Dsr & 1DxIII with beefed up AF, and dual processors-one dedicated to the AF. The 5Ds/5Dsr bodies only do 6.5 fps because they are 50 MP, the others do from 10 fps to I believe it is 15 fps. The high speed ones are dedicated action cameras - other brands make similar action camera bodies.
Dec 7, 2019 21:27:15 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
BTW - manual focus and manual exposure have no direct relationship beyond both being related to photography.
I couldn't agree more.
The question was not intended to relate the two to each other, just illustrate two old-school techniques wherein one is still acceptable and one seems not to be.
Quote:
Panning is a different skill than follow-focus and still very relevant. Panning too is supported by computer-aided modern lens technology, specifically the IS / VR panning mode from available lenses, typically the type 2 setting.
How does the IS/VR help panning?
I thought they were supposed to be counter-productive, trying to correct the blur encountered when panning fast action.
Dec 7, 2019 21:28:16 #
One gets to know one's gear and it's strengths and weaknesses. Technique is always a plus and can make a big difference. Turning on servo with tracking and eye detection is nice though when the little square turns green over the subjects eye and follows it confirming focus as it moves around.
Dec 7, 2019 21:29:58 #
Najataagihe wrote:
How does the IS/VR help panning?
I thought they were supposed to be counter-productive, trying to correct the blur encountered when panning fast action.
I thought they were supposed to be counter-productive, trying to correct the blur encountered when panning fast action.
Most cameras have a panning mode for VR and some detect panning.
From Nikon:
"Nikon's VR (Vibration Reduction) system employs Panning Detection function that enables effective panning shots in Normal mode. ... With this function, the panning effect is maximized. Panning Detection is effective regardless of the camera's orientation or direction of motion.'
https://www.nikonusa.com/Images/Micro-Sites/VR/experience/tips/panning/
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Dec 7, 2019 21:31:17 #
robertjerl wrote:
Besides a processor/computer being faster than a human the main reason is that modern DSLRs compared to SLRs of the past have pretty poor focusing screens with out the "split" and "checkerboard" focus that aided manual focus - for manual focus in general modern DSLRs suck let alone trying to do a follow focus.
I didn't consider the old focusing aids, as you couldn't use them for follow-focusing, anyway.
You had to use the ground glass area of the viewfinder, as there was no way to keep that tiny split screen on the subject!
Dec 7, 2019 21:31:24 #
The focus rings on most modern lenses also are not as precise as older manual focus lenses. Modern macro lenses might be an exception, where manual focus is maybe a bit more expected. Other lenses with AF abilities all include a MF ability, but somewhat as an after thought. I think the MF ability works best with a 10x focus zoom in the EVF or the DLSR's LiveView, problematic approaches for focus-following fast moving (any moving) subjects.
Dec 7, 2019 21:34:14 #
Bill_de wrote:
Most cameras have a panning mode for VR. It only corrects for vertical motion.
From Nikon:
"Nikon's VR (Vibration Reduction) system employs Panning Detection function that enables effective panning shots in Normal mode. ... With this function, the panning effect is maximized. Panning Detection is effective regardless of the camera's orientation or direction of motion.'
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From Nikon:
"Nikon's VR (Vibration Reduction) system employs Panning Detection function that enables effective panning shots in Normal mode. ... With this function, the panning effect is maximized. Panning Detection is effective regardless of the camera's orientation or direction of motion.'
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Cute!
I'll have to check this out.
Thanks!
Dec 7, 2019 21:37:51 #
Najataagihe wrote:
I didn't consider the old focusing aids, as you couldn't use them for follow-focusing, anyway.
You had to use the ground glass area of the viewfinder, as there was no way to keep that tiny split screen on the subject!
You had to use the ground glass area of the viewfinder, as there was no way to keep that tiny split screen on the subject!
Compared to the old SLRs the ground glass focusing screens on new cameras still suck in my opinion. Or maybe it is my 1945 model Mark I Eye Balls even with Optical Enhancements.
And those action cameras (I have a Canon 7DII) only get their full potential if you are using a very good fast focusing lens. Read that as an $$$ lens.
Dec 7, 2019 21:41:53 #
Najataagihe wrote:
How does the IS/VR help panning?
I thought they were supposed to be counter-productive, trying to correct the blur encountered when panning fast action.
I thought they were supposed to be counter-productive, trying to correct the blur encountered when panning fast action.
The IS only helps with camera shake, it doesn't impact subject motion, but it can sometimes detect or be set for motion in one direction. You might find this interesting, in fact all these tutorials are pretty good.
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-autofocus.htm
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