PH CIB

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

My personal belief ever since high school (I was Regular Army for one enlistment with 2 years in Nam) the Swiss or Israeli model.
Everyone except the disabled etc serves in some capacity and then goes into reserve status. It could be a third category in addition to the current Reserves and National Guard.
If everyone has some skin in the game and experience then maybe more will take part in real solutions that will work in the real world.

I would like to see Heinlein's idea from the book "Starship Troopers" become reality. Not the Hollywood movie version - the book. Everyone is a citizen with rights and protections but only those who serve in one of the approved categories vote, run for office, get certain jobs (and some of those jobs count as "service" in the first place for those those like conscientious objectors) etc. And the ideas behind that would be taught in high school as a mandatory class by service veterans only and the local school officials have no power over them.

Then those who violate the trust of service or office after service get prosecuted and punished, no exceptions.

Of course if implemented all citizens over a certain age would be grandfathered in for voting etc and the new system would gradually take over.

In the book the main character is military and an officer in a war with an alien race. His father is a millionaire/billionaire who never served and didn't care about voting and public office as long as his businesses thrived. At the end of the book the father shows up in his unit as a senior NCO. He has come to see that making money wasn't enough. He needed to serve and be a full voting citizen.

PH CIB

Great Post and I agree but I have mixed feelings on this, as the original Draft had many problems, with mostly the Rich and Powerful getting out of the Draft with deferments, however I think it would be great for everyone to serve our Country in some Capacity in the Military or doing Public Service Work, infrastructure is one thing that comes to mind like the old Great CCC and giving them a GI Bill for Vocational School or College
,,,HOWEVER I worry about our Foreign Policy, I hate it when we go into Countries and Destroy them without building them back up like we helped build up Europe, Germany, Japan, and South Korea and I hate when we support Brutal Dictators and Regimes so I wonder if the Draft would just encourage even worse Foreign Policy or not, AS Much as I hate to be the World's Policeman, I also wonder if that role has kept us out of WWIII,,,ONE wonders in my War Viet Nam if we could have defeated Communism not by War but by having a much more Viable and Dynamic Economic System in Capitalism...or if the Domino Theory was correct...and one has to wonder in looking at Arms Sales Worldwide not only our Country but also a half a dozen other Countries if that is not a major driving force for conflict worldwide...

Bill_de Loc: US

I agree with 'Everybody Serves'. I wasn't so keen on it the day I got my draft notice. But by the end of my two years of service, half of that in combat, I came away with respect for the service, and great respect for the people I served with. I'm not sure if my love of country stemmed from that experience, or was simply enhanced.

We need everybody to serve. We need our leadership to be very careful about going to war. If we go to war we need our military leaders to be free to make the military decisions confident that we are in it to win it.

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robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Did you know that Ho Chi Minh actually liked the US and Americans in general and hoped for our support at the end of WW II because the OSS was the main support and source of outside help the Viet Minh got to fight the Japanese. One thing I read said he even had an idea for a blended democratic/capitalism/socialist/communism system using the best of each for the people. But due to treaties with France the US did not support him as the French government wanted their empire back.
One thing led to another and we got the war.
I wonder what a western-free world aligned Vietnam with the communists and non-communist nationalists cooperating would have been like and evolved into over time?

I think with the serve to get full citizenship and hold office system and the government in the hands of service veterans the world, esp in regards to wars and the whole "world policeman" thing would be much different. When those who do the bleeding in charge the non-bleeding solutions would get more attention. The system in the book didn't just give elected office to those who served, the appointed/bureaucrat offices also went to them and they weren't lifetime gravy trains. They continued to be service positions that you had to earn the right to keep. And the judgement of that earning and keeping were other service veterans.

le boecere

G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK

It is not just a US problem...Germany Has now changed its rules so that it can now enrolls French to make up their numbers - it is something the Brexit Pro voters push ...that soon the UK may be asked to provide recruits/conscripts for a European Army rather than just sending trainers to keep Russia at bay...(Isn't that what got the US involved in Vietnam?). Seems we are still in an era where People on the ground rather than technology is needed despite the claims made by Big Business.

rick_n_wv Loc: Charleston WV

That is a real concept. When bureaucrats decide it is for the good of the bureau.

PH CIB

That is Extremely Interesting an EU Army comprised of the Militaries of all the Nations of the EU, since the EU Nations if I read your Post correctly are also having problems with recruitment...I have always found the EU very interesting as far as the Countries involved and their Opinions of it on how it affects Nationalism as opposed to a sense of Community of like minded Nations, I have always thought the EU was a good idea and would become a Powerhouse to the benefit of all the Nations involved but as in all Families You probably have the Over Achievers and Achievers and Under Achievers economically and militarily....I suppose in some way NATO is the EU Army,,,it is interesting if this is one of the many factors that could be argued for or against Brexit....

cascoly Loc: seattle

no, each member state maintains its own military, and more confusing, some are not part of NATO, and some European NATO members aren't part of the EU

an interesting Netflix offering is 'Nobel' about a Norwegian officer accused of war crime in Afghanistan

JDG3

I read a lot of military history, foreign policy papers and military theory and this is a theme that shows up a lot since the draft was stopped after Vietnam. Whether you think it is right or wrong, many believe that conscription done correctly and fairly would go a long way in limiting our involvement in so many wars. Many people in high positions believe that this is one of the driving reasons that the Afghan war has gone on for nearly 20 years. While we have many men and women serving in harm's way all over the world, they probably are not a broad representation of the US population as a whole. And unlike Vietnam during the draft when everyone knew someone or had a relative in the military, that is not the case today. This also explains why there are few, if any, protests of the current wars. As someone else said; many Americans do not have any skin in the game and therefore are largely disconnected from the war. Conscripted service done properly could do a lot to change the way the US views and conducts wars.

The volunteer military of today is seen as a professional career or job. As such, it can and is used as foreign policy dictates with little backlash. It is easier and quicker to send in the military and force an agreement than to negotiate an agreement. Technology amplifies this attitude with the introduction of ever capable drones, robots and smart weapons that allow the military to stand off and still inflict damage. Most, if not all of the US drone operators flying over the conflict area today are located here at various US bases.

The role of the defense industry and contractors should also not be overlooked. A war that consumes large volumes goods, services, equipment and munitions also brings jobs, increased tax revenues. The big defense contractors have done an excellent job in making sure these jobs and suppliers are placed around the country to gain the support of an many politicians as possible to maintain support in Washington. Any politician that is against military interventions runs the risk of endangering jobs and constituents income and thus losing votes.

Reading this one may interpret me as anti-war or anti-military, but I am neither. I entered the military in the early 1970's and retired with 26 years of service. I served during the last years of the draft and since during the volunteer era. The US has the best,most capable and deadly military in the world. We should use it when we need to without hesitation and bring as much deadly force to bear as the situation requires. However, we should also have the capability for negotiation and use that properly when needed. There should also be some method of bringing in a broader representation of the US population into the military so the effects of sending these men and women to conflicts affect a broader range of people. This should put more pressure onto politicians to end wars as soon as possible once entering into a conflict.

I am for a strong military and its use when needed. However, something is wrong when there are military members that have spent the MAJORITY of their 20+ year career in wars in Afghanistan and Iraq with no end in sight. It is wrong when we have teenagers approaching 20 years of age who have a war going on their ENTIRE lives.

cincykid

I was drafted just after I finished college in 1966. I wasn't particularly gung ho but my Dad, a combat medic in the 78th Infantry in WWII said "As long as you don't end up in the infantry it will probably be good for you".

My Army mos was 84c20, motion picture photographer, I trained with 15 guys, half Marines at Ft. Monmouth. I was the only guy who went to Germany. All the others went to Nam. I learned about 15 years ago that one of those Marines, William T. Perkins, was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor postumously.

I was lucky but like anyone in Germany, Korea or anywhere in those days or today, things could change very quickly.

My time in the Army was my "time away" at college and has created bonds with guys which still exist after 50 years. Membership in the American Legion has formed additional bonds and love of country.

All that said, I believe after all these years that a draft for some kind of service should be mandatory. Too few appreciate the service, protection and sacrifices of the 1%.

Another benefit would be with more people with 'skin in the game' there would be more dialogue (even protest) re: the wisdom of entering a conflict or continuing in endless wars.

Pressure on our elected officials from more people with families with 'skin in the game' could create a more equitable application of our Country's military foreign policy.

mas24 Loc: Southern CA

I have mixed opinions on this. The cause of the Draft, ending under the President Nixon Administration, was because of the Vietnam War. I remember well, the riots, draft card burners, and the rich kids going to Canada to avoid the Draft. I had a now retired Civilian Supervisor, that was one of them. I ran into him earlier this year at a Post Office. President Jimmy Carter gave all of them amnesty. Which was his Right, but angered many who had permanent injuries, and suffered psychological mishaps, from the Vietnam War. I lost three friends from the Vietnam War. I saw their names on the Vietnam Memorial Wall n 2015, when I visited DC. Famous people served in the Military during WW2. Two Kennedy's, Clark Gable, Jimmy Stewart, and Heavy Weight Champion Joe Louis, etc. Muhammad Ali refused to go into to the Military, because of religious reasons. Elvis Presley was the most famous Draftee during the late 1950s. No, none of them were on the Front Lines of combat. But, at least they served. I met a Supervisor of Construction not long ago. He said he can't fill job positions, needed badly, because qualified applicants, either refuse to take a drug test, or fail the drug test. The Military does not need these applicants either. I'm all for the Military, but bringing back the Draft could be problematic. Many High Schools won't even let Recruiters go on campus to talk to upcoming graduating Seniors. I have two relatives, who served in Vietnam. Both retired military. The stories they told me were amazing. President Nixon, a Californian, always looked at one of his legacy achievements, to ending the Draft. He lived not far from me, in San Clemente, CA. He was a big supporter of the US Marines, and occasionally invited a select few for a picnic at his home. Unfortunately, his resignation is one of his legacies too. Bad legacy.

Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb

I never found I was special when I was in. I did find out how to grow up.With a the special kids to day even a basic training may help them in life.

2Dragons Loc: The Back of Beyond

Totally agree. And with the training that the service gives, some guys that might not have known what they wanted to do with their lives in high school, may find that they look at life a bit differently after serving their country. The military discipline wouldn't hurt either, since as parents we are not allowed to discipline our children for fear of going to jail, maybe the service can give them what we couldn't.