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SOOC vs Process vs Edit vs Manipulate
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Jun 29, 2021 18:55:31   #
nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida
 
Wallen wrote:
Well, try bracketing children playing with soccer and post when you made a miracle shot.
As for me, I did get the shot that I wanted, only we can not agree on it as for you it is trash.

Just to clarify that I do not intend to make anyone conform to my opinion,
here again are my parting words in the original post;

"Finally, I must clarify that the above is not canon nor generally accepted. These are my point of view based on my own experience in the field.


Yes you did in a way. In your original post you wanted us to categorize our work with a grading as to whether we edit our images and to what degree . No one has ever done that or ever has since the beginning of photography because it has always been manipulated in one way or another .By choice of film ,paper , darkroom work or whatever means . It is no ones business how one's work is created . You like or you don't most buy it if they like it enough . I do requests if someone wants to a print and they want this or that removed I do it . My work I make as close to what I saw as if a Painter who has control over his brushes and tools . I paint with light and color If I drastically alter the image it is self evident but still called "altered states"as in the image below self evident not a real photo it has been altered drastically even the file says final fractals .Its origin was a photograph it is evident its is no longer .


(Download)

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Jul 2, 2021 18:24:52   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
nikonbrain wrote:
Yes you did in a way. In your original post you wanted us to categorize our work with a grading as to whether we edit our images and to what degree .

"A lot had been discussed about how the final image should be shown and I personally put them into these four categories... ...Finally, I must clarify that the above is not canon nor generally accepted. These are my point of view based on my own experience in the field."

These are the first and last sentences of the original post. If you still understand them as forcing my will on anyone, I know not how to make it clearer.

nikonbrain wrote:

No one has ever done that or ever has since the beginning of photography because it has always been manipulated in one way or another .By choice of film ,paper , darkroom work or whatever means .

Does no one having done it before, make it wrong or untrue? Everything has a beginning, a first time. Why not this one? With the changes of chemical & manual processing to its modern digital counterpart, is it not time to upgrade our understanding as well? Does it not make post & processes in digital photography it clearer? Will it not help if someone was teaching the knowledge?
Again I'm not insisting anything. I just want good answers because if it does have merit, then why not?

nikonbrain wrote:

It is no ones business how one's work is created .

No it is not and I am not minding anyone's business. As aforementioned, "these are my point of view based on my own experience". Why did I wrote it? I believe that it can help to understand the effort, help to appreciate the art in a deeper level and help if someone wishes to pass on the knowledge so it is easier to emulate those whom we look up to.

nikonbrain wrote:

You like or you don't most buy it if they like it enough . I do requests if someone wants to a print and they want this or that removed I do it . My work I make as close to what I saw as if a Painter who has control over his brushes and tools . I paint with light and color If I drastically alter the image it is self evident but still called "altered states"as in the image below self evident not a real photo it has been altered drastically even the file says final fractals .Its origin was a photograph it is evident its is no longer .
br You like or you don't most buy it if they like... (show quote)

My post defining the states of an image are not restrictions. It does not force anyone to stick to any rules or deny them of their free will to do as they please with their photography. It merely gave definition to the status of an image as it change from a photograph to something beyond.

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Jul 3, 2021 01:57:00   #
User ID
 
OMFG it’s really true !!!!
Zombies DO eat brains !

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Jul 3, 2021 05:07:54   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
Its the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

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Jul 3, 2021 05:45:50   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
nikonbrain wrote:
I am sorry please do not misunderstand what I meant . I did say if I had taken it I would have put it in recycle which is represented as a trash can on my desktop not my choice but Microsoft . But it would have been one of many as if I really wanted the shot I would have done it in bracket and under exposed it purposely to save the sky even if overcast or used fill flash if you didn't know the people then of course no flash . . I don't like blown highlights it means I failed . I also would have made more attempts till I nailed It .
I am sorry please do not misunderstand what I mean... (show quote)



We all want to get the best shot, but everyone's tools and skill are not equal. Some like you have better ones than people like me. Photo opportunities or situations can be as varied too. Bracketing is one of many good techniques but it is not always applicable. Even our purpose in taking pictures can be vastly different. Hence we should should not compare, unless asked. Specially in writing since we lose a lot of the nuances in communication.
We may end up imposing our own to others when that is not what we meant.

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Jul 3, 2021 08:39:18   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
There are no rules for good photographs, great photographs have just one: the camera used was better than yours.

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Jul 3, 2021 10:45:13   #
DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX
 
Wallen wrote:
A lot had been discussed about how the final image should be shown and I personally put them into these four categories.

SOOC (straight out of camera):
- is an output that can either be a RAW, JPEG or combination of both. RAW vs JPG are hotly debated but we wont go there. My own personal experience taught me that they both have their use and preferring one over the other is really limiting the cameras capability.
- In the real world application, I believe that SOOC output are better suited as PROOF files. This are "Base" files suited as starting points for editing or the full opposite of never to be touched and be representative of reality for News, journalism, family & journey snap shots.


Processed:
- From the older times of film, Processing is mainly developing, adjusting saturation, exposure, cropping then printing. We will therefore use this as the basis of our present meaning and usage.
- Sharpening, converting images from color to monochrome, selective color, black & white.
- Use of RAW reader/converter & similar softwares such as Lightroom is mainly processing and possibly Soft Editing.
- In processing, the aim is just to show a good/best representation of the SOOC file.


Edited:
- A step beyond processing, editing introduces changes to image elements of the SOOC file.
- Editing can be further divided to Soft and Hard edit.
- Changes in relationships between elements such as using lens correction, stretching, perspective & horizon adjustments can be attributed as Soft edit.
- Removal of pimples, strings, power lines, and other light improvements are still regarded as soft edit.

- Hard edit consist of individually adjusting elements partly or whole within the image such as; removing scars, creating background or artistic blur, using liquefy to make eyes bigger, smaller tummy etc.
- Removing elements via cloning other parts of the image and adding decorative elements such as borders, text/signature and the like.
- Editing has a broad coverage but generally it is meant to visually improve the hero element by adjusting it and/or the elements supporting the hero. Editing is best for portraits & product shoots.


Manipulated;
- There is a broad grey line between Hard Edit and Manipulating an image so we judge where an image belong by the percentage of treatment. As one becomes more proficient, the dividing line between the two becomes clearer.
- Generally speaking, manipulate is when we add none native elements into the photo which (adversely) alters its truth. This also include radically changing the elements within the image itself by moving, coloring, texturing and so on.
- Manipulation is when the realities of the photo takes less importance and gives way to creative juices and imagination, hence manipulation is most seen on Advertising and Creative endeavors.

In conclusion, I desire to share these hopefully to help improve capacity to understand, show or purpose an image seen or created. As an example, I conclude by the above that it is too judgmental and limiting to believe that only SOOC images matter as we can see that every output has a purpose to which they are suited for and excel at. Likewise that it would be an abomination to present an edited or more so, a manipulated image as news.
Finally, i must clarify that the above is not canon nor generally accepted. These are my point of view based on my own xperience in the field.
A lot had been discussed about how the final image... (show quote)


You might review the rules for photographic image competition provided by the PPA.

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Jul 3, 2021 11:18:13   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
DavidPine wrote:
You might review the rules for photographic image competition provided by the PPA.


They are only relevant to those taking part in those specific competitions.

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